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Igor_Dzis
PAZYRYK
http://worldimages.sjsu.edu/VieO56469$657*258161
Тоже Форум / Gallery / Эрмитаж
Первобытная культура, железный век/ sasa
Scythian Armour
http://www.tforum.info/forum/index.php? ... m=16&st=18
Тоже Форум / Gallery /Эрмитаж
Выставка "Александр Македонский - путь на Восток"/ sasa
http://www.tforum.info/forum/index.php? ... m&album=17
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Great images, Igor, though some of the PAZYRYK links don't seem to work.
It's good to see part of the huge wealth of information that must exist in the Ukraine, Uzbek, and other former parts of the old Soviet Union......keep it coming, and a well deserved laudes !!  D
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
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That was fixed quickly! Before I even finished posting!  hock:
For those interested, the Pazyryk finds are well described and copiously illustrated in a book (in English) by Sergei Rudenko, "Frozen Tombs of Siberia"
Also, the dating of these has always been a bit vague - "6th-3rd century B.C."...but recently, carbon dating of some of the rugs has provided a firm date circa 250 B.C
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
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Quote:Igor_Dzis
PAZYRYK
--
Don Igor,
muchas gracias
Spasiba
Dziekuje
thanks
by the way do know works by a Kazak military expert Qaliolla Ahmetjanov?
Dario
ps
I will have Rudenko's Paxyryk book next week
I would love to have a look at these books by M. V. Gorelik :
Oruzhie drevnego Vostoka. IV tys–IV v do n.e.
"Zashchitnoe vooruzhenie persov i mid-yan achemenidskogo vremeni" (Persian and Median armor in the Achaemenid period), VDI, 1982, 3, pp. 90-106.
"Kushanski dospekh" (Kushan armor), in G. M. Bongard-Levin ed., Drevnyaya India. Istoriko-kul'turnye svyazi, Moscow, 1982.
bachmat66 (Dariusz T. Wielec)
<a class="postlink" href="http://dariocaballeros.blogspot.com/">http://dariocaballeros.blogspot.com/
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Quote:Also, the dating of these has always been a bit vague - "6th-3rd century B.C."...but recently, carbon dating of some of the rugs has provided a firm date circa 250 B.C
well, on this page of Univ of Washington the author, Daniel Waugh says re Pazyryk : 'on the whole these dates are younger than the original ones proposed by Rudenko, but as Stepanova points out, it is possible that they may be further revised.' via E. V. Stepanova, "Evoliutsiia konskogo snariazheniia i otnositel'naia khronologiia pamiatnikov Pazyrykskoi kul'tury" [Evolution of horse harnesses and relative chronology of the monuments of the Pazyryk culture], Arkheologicheskie vesti (St. Petersburg), No. 13 (2006): p. 104.
http://depts.washington.edu/silkroad/mu ... zyryk.html
so it appears that nothing is final yet
bachmat66 (Dariusz T. Wielec)
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Try here and type in your item in the search box.
They have some great illuminated manuscripts and articles.
Some may cost you to down load.
http://www.bl.uk/
Jon R.
There are no real truths, just stories. (Zuni)
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Thanks for linking that site...I, for one, had not seen it before.
It is worth noting some other points also:
* All the eight barrows were looted in antiquity, and that is why very few metal artefacts were found, and no weapons save one small iron knife in barrow 6, and 2xdozen arrow shafts ( but no bow or arrowheads ) in barrow 2.
* The eight barrows were put in place over a period of aprox 50 years
* The main reason that Rudenko dated the barrows earlier was that whilst there were chinese artefacts in the barrows, there were no Hellenistic ones, so Rudenko concluded that the barrows were probably pre-Alexander.The original carbon dating was only accurate to 200 years or so.
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
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Quote:well, on this page of Univ of Washington the author, Daniel Waugh says re Pazyryk : 'on the whole these dates are younger than the original ones proposed by Rudenko, but as Stepanova points out, it is possible that they may be further revised.' via E. V. Stepanova, "Evoliutsiia konskogo snariazheniia i otnositel'naia khronologiia pamiatnikov Pazyrykskoi kul'tury" [Evolution of horse harnesses and relative chronology of the monuments of the Pazyryk culture], Arkheologicheskie vesti (St. Petersburg), No. 13 (2006): p. 104.
http://depts.washington.edu/silkroad/mu ... zyryk.html
so it appears that nothing is final yet
Well, the dating of several pieces at least is final. See this short report:
http://www.ipp.phys.ethz.ch/research/ex ... 2000/3.pdf
"Absolute age: BC 260 – 250," at least for the famous Pazyryk carpet.
In another article, entitled "DENDROCHRONOLOGY AND RADIOCARBON DATING METHODS IN ARCHAEOLOGICAL STUDIES OF SCYTHIAN SITES," the authors conclude with this statement:
Quote:The most recent results of 14C
dating of Pazyryk Barrow 2 attributes its construction date to the beginning of the 3rd century BC
(F G McCormac and J P Mallory, personal communication 1999). We have carried out the 14C age
measurements of the D-5 sample from Pazyryk Barrow 2 (Le-5558–Le-5563). The log was split in
6 pieces, each one including 20 tree rings. To determine the absolute age of the sample, the 14C dates
were calibrated with the use of the bidecadal calibration curve (Pearson and Stuiver 1993; Stuiver
and Pearson 1993). The position of the experimental points relative to the calibration curve was
determined by means of minimization of χ2 statistics (Zaitseva et al. 1998). According to our estimation
the construction date of Pazyryk Barrow 2 is 300 BC with an error of 25–35 yr (2 σ). See
Figure 2 for details. Only a few 14C dates are available for the Dogee-Baary-2 burials (Sementsov et
al. 1998; Görsdorf et al. 1998). According to these data, the construction date of the tombs is the end
6th to the beginning of the 4th century BC. Thus the results of the comparative analysis of the age
of the Dogee-Baary-2 and Pazyryk sites are in agreement with the results based on 14C dating. The
construction date of Barrow 8 of the Dogee-Baary-2 Group should be attributed to the first third of
the 4th century BC. Indirectly obtained evidence confirms this new assessment of the absolute age
of the Pazyryk barrows and supports the revised chronology of Iron Age for the entire area of southern
Siberia and central Asia.
This is also in line with a few new finds in the Mongolian part of the Altai mountains. Two new warrior burials have been found, and both date to the late fourth or early third century BC, with very close parallels in material culture to the famous barrows.
Ruben
He had with him the selfsame rifle you see with him now, all mounted in german silver and the name that he\'d give it set with silver wire under the checkpiece in latin: Et In Arcadia Ego. Common enough for a man to name his gun. His is the first and only ever I seen with an inscription from the classics. - Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian
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Thank you everybody for some excellent posts, they have been great to look at 
And to the person who gave me first ever Laude - thank you!
For those of you who don't know, staff at the Hermitage more recently carried out some Infra-red photography on the Pazyryk bodies and found more tattoos...What is interesting is the female from Kurgan 5 has been suspected as being a Chinese bride (by Rudenko amongst others), now her tattoos deepen the mystery as they are in the Chinese style according to staff at the Hermitage. She's a surefire canditate for DNA profiling one day. Other tattoos were also revealed. I could post them here but it would detract from the theme of this thread?
I have a Scythian tattoo on my upper arm - I used to work in a tattoo parlour when the Ice Maiden was making breaking news - by that evening I had her designs inked into my skin. I must be mad :?
Regards,
Syr Ateas/Marika
Bronze and Iron Age Archaeology covering Scythians (Center for the Study of Eurasian Nomads):
[url:2wfjs7br]http://www.csen.org/[/url]
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Here's some Scythian armour from the Ashmolean Museum that Celer sent me.. A portion of scale and an arm/shin guard.
![[Image: scythian500bc.jpg]](http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/peronis/scythian500bc.jpg)
![[Image: scythianarmshin.jpg]](http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/peronis/scythianarmshin.jpg)
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Some more links of interest:
A documentary (I have the English version on video but could only find this Hungarian version) about Parzinger's excavations of Altai Scythians. Note its in 6 parts:
[url:3ckfh7x7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9Ktdlx-X3E[/url]
This second one I find more interesting, and is a recent(ish) French excavation in the Altai Mountains as mentioned above. Again its not in English, but I'm sure you'll enjoy the film - in 5 parts:
[url:3ckfh7x7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV-OnWIgMtM[/url]
Regards,
Syr Ateas/Marika
Bronze and Iron Age Archaeology covering Scythians (Center for the Study of Eurasian Nomads):
[url:2wfjs7br]http://www.csen.org/[/url]
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Nice images Peroni!
That is the assemblage I am studying - the entire Scythian collection at the Ashmolean is currently in deep storage as the building is being demolished, although a couple of pieces might still be out on display. I am also scrutinising the textiles found with them under the microscope. I have to publish my work, but it will be a while...
Keep your pictures coming folks
Regards,
Syr Ateas/Marika
Bronze and Iron Age Archaeology covering Scythians (Center for the Study of Eurasian Nomads):
[url:2wfjs7br]http://www.csen.org/[/url]
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As an aside. My avatar is a pic of a Scythian bone/ivory ornament found in one of the Alti mounds.
Jon R.
There are no real truths, just stories. (Zuni)
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![[Image: smallparmarat.jpg]](http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/peronis/smallparmarat.jpg)
