Gladius... quality vs. authenticity

[brennivs - tony drake]

Hmmm its a Viking blade Gaivs and still needs finishing before tempering,
Ihave a piece of wrought iron that will become a Pompeii blade one day.Although I was showing also the types of finnish you can achieve with various metals but dull sheen blade is best

Wrought Iron.

Mild Steel.

Spring Steel unfinished blades.
Regards Brennivs

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I wqs thinking the shape was similar to a couple of the pattern welded gladii I have seen in a few museums....

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q315 ... CF0141.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q315 ... 0251-1.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q315 ... CF0246.jpg

mind you I always remember them as being tapered then I see the picture and they look like pompeis :roll:

[stevesarak]

Are there blades that conform to both the standards of authenticity of design AND material available anywhere? I know, I won't be actually using a gladius to cleave someone into little pieces, yet having a blade that is period accurate and knowingly truly "battle worthy" in the true sense of the words would ad that extra dimension of realism to the impression, don't you think?

A blade with the design accuracies of say a Deepeka, but the proper metals (high/low carbon steel) with full tang and construction of a battle-ready blade.

Yes, there is the "accuracy to within reason" argument, but it just doesn't make sense to me to stickle on the material types of garments and cloaks, yet totally ignore weapons and armor on the same note.

Thoughts and/or suggestions??

Hi,

I know exactly what you’re asking. I did a lot of research myself to find an authentically made sword, make out of the same material and designed the same way the original were. I wanted to hold a sword in my hand that would have been the same feel, weight, and functionality (Good or bad) that was used back then, but unfortunately your not going to find commercially made blades like that.

You can have one hand made, there are a half dozen or so people that’ll make one from the material and specs you specify, but be warned that they’ll start at over $1000.00.

I had one made, but at the last second decided to go with something, that if I did get teleported back in time, would hold up and be stronger then the original.

I don’t remember the list of sword maker I had, but if you go to: http://forums.swordforum.com/forumdispl ... &x=17&y=17 and post the question, you’ll get a list of people.

If you decide to use one, be careful though to ask all the questions up front.
Will they make one to your specification without any deviations.
Will they use the material you specify.
Will they attach the pommel as the Roman’s did (burning the tang through the grip) or will they drill a hole, insert the tang, bur threads at the end then screw on the cap.
What is the tolerance they’ll do. One person that has an excellent reputation for his craftsmanship, made an exact duplicate, from blueprints of a authentic sword that I own and increased all the measurement by ¼.
Since some take liberties of their own, will they show you pictures of the finished product before you buy. A lot won’t.

If you plan on commissioning a sword, try to think that they’ll do everything wrong unless you tell them exactly (EXACTLY) with diagrams, pictures and a lot and a lot of talk, of what you want.

If you decide to have one made, remember to keep in touch and keep asking question and confirming what they doing. I had one sword made that the maker had slightly changed the plans four or five times, and unless I had kept in touch, it would have come out slightly different, it would have been close but for those that know what they want, it wouldn’t have been the same.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Thoughts and/or suggestions??

Hi,


I had one made, but at the last second decided to go with something, that if I did get teleported back in time, would hold up and be stronger then the original.

.[/quote]

Well, now we get to the crunch....that is exactly why I went for the Albion's, love them or leave them!! :lol: :lol: :lol: 8)

[caiusbeerquitius]

As for pattern welded blades try Patrick Barta

http://www.templ.net/english/swords_cert...stamps.php

or Hector Cole

http://www.hectorcoleironwork.com/

If you want to go for the best (self-wrought Iron from a ex-roman quarry in the Alps, hand forged and pattern-welded) you want to contact Frank Trommer. But in comparison the two above are far cheaper.

www.trommer-archaeotechnik.de/

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Patrik's quoting a 3 year wait for anything tho', but his work looks great!

[Matt Lukes]

Will they attach the pommel as the Roman’s did (burning the tang through the grip) or will they drill a hole, insert the tang, bur threads at the end then screw on the cap.

What makes you think they did it this way Steve? Most gladii had a bone grip that has a large marrow space so needs no hole to be made and the guards/pommels I've seen images and diagrams of appear to have rectangular holes chiselled into them to admit the tang- burning a hole through 3-4cm of hardwood seems unlikely to be practically accomplished- no?

[stevesarak]

Hi,

First of all let me say that I entered my post in a hurry, I did it from work and didn’t spend the time I should have to clarify some of what I said.

When I spoke about staying on top of the sword makers to make sure the work is done right, in no way did I mean to include anyone that does work for RAT. Matt, you’ve always showed professionalism in dealing with us USERS and I’ve never heard a complaint about you. I was referring to some of the sword makers that only deal in making swords and nothing else, none of those are members or RAT.

Second, my knowledge of burning the tang through the grip of course (I assume) only pertains to wood, and comes from different independent smithies explaining to me how the Romans did it that way. I can’t testify on how accurate their knowledge is, but they told me that it may take awhile and many attempts at burning a little at a time then heating back up the metal and burning some more. And of course that doesn’t mean that that was the only way it was done. But if the norm was to burn the tang through, then in contents to what we were talking about, I’d want the sword created in that way.

[varia cassia]

Another thing to keep in mind, if you do have educational seminars, is that most schools don't even allow weapons in the schools at all anymore, never mind something that is exceedingly sharp. Unless your going to use it for combat, it's better to stay with a non-edged weapon. The mundanes are really pretty close. Take it from someone has had tell more than one idiot not to run their hands across the edge of a blade.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

There is alway one.... or the person who looks down the barral of a gun with their finger on the trigger and asks 'is this where the bullets come out?" :o x shock: :roll:

[Matt Lukes]

Hi,

First of all let me say that I entered my post in a hurry, I did it from work and didn’t spend the time I should have to clarify some of what I said...

Oh I didn't take any offense to what you wrote Steve- I don't think anyone could since you were just being quite rightly direct about what a client should do when commissioning a piece to avoid any 'surprises'

I was just curious about the statement and whether you knew something I didn't. I'd certainly like to know just how these smiths know this was even one method the Romans used- exceedingly few wooden handle components are known, and I'm unaware of any that exhibit burns from the tang. It strikes me as an unduly laborious method when chisels would work quite well and far faster. But of course regardless you're right that if it was a common method, if one is to go the cost of commissioning an expensive piece, it's a detail that should be specified. I'd just make sure not to choose details based on hearsay since it's all too often wrong. :wink: