Funny Question about Caligae

[M. Demetrius]

I'm no expert, and have only woven a little. I think it's safe to say, though, that enough wool cloth to make a military tunic would take a weaver about a day per panel, or two days' labor. Remember, the wool has to be spun from raw wool, which also has to be combed, somewhat degreased, and sorted before it can become yarn. If it had to be dyed, add at least a few days for that process. I'm sure people in a vicus wove. And tunics would be an obvious choice of marketable goods.

Cesary could probably give an accurate time, since he's dealing with people in Ukraine who are just as close to the sheep pen as anybody...hand spun, hand woven is still basically the same process, though perhaps modern table looms work a little faster than warp weighted. Still, it's no small task, which is why the cloth for one from that source costs, what, 70 pounds? 150 USD?

And my own view, however skewed, is that a torn, unmendable tunic would have become focalae, polishing cloths, leg wraps, foot covers, smaller gear/storage bags, helmet padding, waist sashes, and a dozen other uses, rather than being simply discarded. Hey, with cloth at a reasonable price comparitively today, even us boneheads do that. I also suspect that many if not most soldiers knew how to do basic sewing/mending.

[Paullus Scipio]

David and Derek have rather beaten me to it, but I don't think we are in much disagreement here, Jim. Certainly appearance was every bit as important, if not more so , then. Equally clothes were far more valuable in terms of monetary cost, and the work involved then, than now in the age of mass-production.
We do not need to look far to find analogies. The eighteenth century was immediately prior to the Industrial age. At that time the British soldier was issued with a new coat each year. With the old one he was expected to make/have made a new waistcoat and breeches.
An even better analogy arises in Highland Regiments of the time, when a new plaid was issued, and the old worn-out one was expected to be turned into new socks.....( i.e. made from old woven tartan plaid, rather than knitted). Highland Regiments to this day wear 'hose' of woven rather than knitted material in full dress....... ( and ironic indeed when you consider that Highland regiments pride themselves on wearing 'the Garb of Old Gaul' - plaids supposed to be based on the toga/Roman tunics, and the oldest scottish unit is nicknamed 'Pontius Pilate's bodyguard' !) wink:

[Tarbicus]

Thanks for bearing with me on that everyone. Sooo.... should a fair number of us be wearing red socks? :wink:

David, thanks for the guesstimate on time taken. You know, that's not bad at all, and nothing compared to transport time. Why pay for it from the vicus when your Mum could make it if you were willing to wait? Paul, interesting about the Highland regiments and 18th-C British soldiers.

I've no problem with recycling at all, although I'd suggest clothing would more likely be new and presentable, and only the 'best cuts' would be used for them if recycled. In civilian life, wouldn't a citizen turn up at his patron's house looking very presentable? I don't see why it would be any different within the military, especially with their comparative pay.

[Graham Sumner]

As well as the letter about socks, there is also a sock itself from Vindolanda. The sock had an upper and a sole made from separate pieces of medium weight diamond twill. the two pieces were roughly tacked together. It was very worn on the upper edge and on the outer sole of the heel. It was however quite small so may have belonged to a child rather than a soldier.

A tunic from Mons Claudianus had been remade from an old cloak because it incorporated gamma motifs found at the edges of cloaks in the middle on one side and near the shoulder on the other. A gamma pattern was also found on a textile fragment made up of two pieces at Vindolanda too, again suggesting it was from part of a recycled garment. Whether soldiers were wearing these garments is open to question.

There is increasing evidence to suggest that forts were not just full of men. I have often thought the image I grew up with of the Roman Army owed much to archaeologists and historians with experiences of the British army in the 1940's -60's. So we had whitewashed barracks devoid of women and smart uniformly equipped soldiers. However look at the British army of the 1740's -60's and we have a completely different picture. There would be women living in the barracks doing the cooking and washing and mending clothes.

In the settlements outside the forts there would also be places to buy items of clothing, get them repaired or washed, because unlike today every community had someone who could make clothes and footwear.

Socks made from goats hair cloth are mentioned by Martial (Ep 14.140) while others are made by a technique called sprang-work. Knitted socks from the Roman period are well known from Egypt. There survival only there might just be an accident of archeology as the so called Coptic designs from Egypt can be seen on clothing in Romano-British mosaics. These knitted socks were produced with a single needle, hence the terminology single needle knitting. Whether this is the same as naalbinding I can not say. I will leave that one to the experts to fight out!

Certainly the socks would be brightly coloured and it has been suggested by C.van Driel-Murray that this would show up well with the cut outs on many shoe and boot designs.
Graham.

[Paullus Scipio]

Thanks Graham, for so neatly summarising evidence that otherwise might only have emerged bit by bit! Laudes!
So there we have it - as so often, not an 'either/or' answer...both woven and a form of knitting...Neat that Graham also drew the same analogy as I...the British army of the 1740-1760's...immediately pre-industrial, and there is a fair bit of information available, ....and I'd agree that the 'professional' Roman Army was in reality a community, rather than the 'enforced bachelorhood' that one might envisage from Imperial edicts.......the evidence is ,I think, irrefutable.

Sooo.... should a fair number of us be wearing red socks? :wink:

...well, Jim, that might depend on tunic colour...there is some debate.....oh, wait !! Oh, no !! ...I didn't mean it! ..........aa..aaaa.....rr...ggg...hhhhh.!!! :lol: :lol:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Blues fine! :lol:

[Graham Sumner]

Neat that Graham also drew the same analogy as I...the British army of the 1740-1760's...immediately pre-industrial,

It is also interesting how the army of that era developed specialist units like Grenadiers and light infantry companies. These often operated on their own or were brigaded together with other similar specialist units which became independent formations, like the Louisberg Grenadiers, which very often never returned to the parent regiment. The same phenomenon can be observed in the Roman army of the third century.

Years ago it was thought that Legionary fortresses contained only Legions while Auxiliary forts had only Auxiliary units and that we could expect to see full compliments of soldiers in each type of fort. Once again we find that in colonial America British forts which might be designed for a couple of hundred men might in fact have a garrison of around twenty.

Archaeologists now tell us that Roman forts too were similarly depleted with forces dispersed carrying out various tasks. There is one instance of soldiers in Greece being sent to Gaul to collect clothing!

J.C if I ever find any evidence for first century Legionaries in blue tunics you and Crispus will be the first to know!

Graham.

[Paullus Scipio]

The same phenomenon can be observed in the Roman army of the third century.

...which makes one wonder just how many other analogies, particularly military ones, there are between two pre-industrial empire-building nations with 'professional' armies........................ recruiting local militias to aid the 'regulars' ( auxiliaries), using alliances with 'native' chieftains on borders ( Romans with Germans on the Rhine, British with Amer-Indian nations ...and ensuing 'fall-outs' ( Rome with Batavians, British with Pontiac and other chiefs....), the differences between 'auxiliaries' and regulars becoming blurred ( British and Hessian 'auxiliaries'...British and Sepoy troops in India...)