An anecdote about... Carinus??

[Jona Lendering]

In his speech On Imperial Rule, Synesius tells a story about a Roman emperor fighting against "the Parthians", who received an embassy from the enemy. The Roman leader did not rise from his chair (he was having dinner), but said to the ambassador that if their young king refused to behave more properly, his country would soon be as bare as the emperor's head.

According to Synesius, the bald emperor was Carinus, who only accompanied his father Carus to the east. Neither Carus nor Carinus was bald. Does this anecdote sound familiar to anyone?

[D B Campbell]

According to Synesius, the bald emperor was Carinus ... Neither Carus nor Carinus was bald.

Looks as if Carus was bald after all.

[Jona Lendering]

I think he had his hair very short. :wink:

[Graham Sumner]

Hi Jona

According to Synesius, the bald emperor was Carinus, who only accompanied his father Carus to the east. Neither Carus nor Carinus was bald. Does this anecdote sound familiar to anyone?

Yes Indeed it does. 'Roman Military Clothing 2', Plate A3

Graham.

[D B Campbell]

Definitely a seriously receding hairline!
(Short enough for the joke to make sense, though?)

[D B Campbell]

'Roman Military Clothing 2', Plate A3.

But, Probus (identified as the bald emperor in the above) is not known to have conducted a Persian campaign. My money's on Carus!

[Jona Lendering]

Yes Indeed it does. 'Roman Military Clothing 2', Plate A3

Can you be a bit more specific? I infer from Duncan's words that it mentions Probus. What's the source?

[D B Campbell]

I infer from Duncan's words that it mentions Probus.

Synesius' description of the bald-headed Emperor Carinus at an embassy with the Persians in reality probably refers to the Emperor Probus, who concluded a peace treaty with the Persian king Bahram II.

I'm not familiar with this peace treaty -- is it in the HA?

[Graham Sumner]

Hello Jona & Duncan

As it seems we are in a private discussion, it would appear there are three candidates Carinus, Carus and Probus. My understanding is that Synesius describes a bald headed emperor 'Carinus' who met the Persians and tried to hide his baldness with a purple cap and who incidentally also wore a tunic of commonplace red wool. So you can appreciate my own interest and why the figure was the subject of a colour plate in my book.

However it would appear that it was Probus who met with the Persians, the passage in the HA which refers to this is XVII 4-5. Nevertheless it seems that out of the three emperors only Carus was bald!

So I hope that clears everything up! :wink:

Best wishes
Graham.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Good ol' Carus..... :wink:

[Robert Vermaat]

Yes Indeed it does. 'Roman Military Clothing 2', Plate A3.

So was Probus bald or not?

It's possible that the Sassanid Persians were referred to as 'Parthians'.
After all, that's what Ammianus did, all the time.

[Jona Lendering]

However it would appear that it was Probus who met with the Persians, the passage in the HA which refers to this is XVII 4-5. Nevertheless it seems that out of the three emperors only Carus was bald!

I may be wrong, but the SHA version at LacusCurtius does not refer to Probus' baldness: go here. But there are indeed similarities. Thanks.

It's possible that the Sassanid Persians were referred to as 'Parthians'.

It is common. Herodian and Synesius did the same, and the practice is well-known. Philostratus calls the Parthians 'Medes', today's French call the Germans 'Alamans' (Allemagne), and we all call the Magyars 'Huns' (Hungary).

[Muzzaguchi]

My money would be on Carus too (don't forget the Breviarium of Festus 24.2). What language does Synesius use? Is it specifically in regard to baldness or could it refer to the lack of a crown or diadem in which case the anecdote may be an 'ideal general' reference (head's uncovered and all that) and a contrast to Persian/Parthian finery? Mind you, I haven't read Synesius so forgive my wild speculation!

Cheers

Murray

[Jona Lendering]

What language does Synesius use? Is it specifically in regard to baldness

He writes in Greek and it is absolutely a remark on baldness. Numbers in quote refer to Migne edition.

[1081] It is said, then, that a certain monarch of those days was leading an expedition against the Parthians, who had behaved towards the Romans in an insulting manner. Now when they had reached the mountain frontiers of Armenia, before entering the enemy country, he was eager to dine, and gave orders to the army to make use of the provisions in the supply column, as they were now in a position to live off the neighboring country should it be necessary. He was then pointing out to them the land of the Parthians. Now, while they were so engaged, an embassy appeared from the enemy lines, thinking on their arrival to have the first conversation with the influential men who surrounded the king, and after these with some dependants and gentleman ushers, but supposing that only on a much later day would the king himself give audience to the embassy.

[1084] However, it turned out somehow that the king was dining at the moment [...] and it was in such guise, they say, that Carinus was seen by the embassy. A tunic dyed in purple was lying on the grass, and for repast he had a soup of yesterday's peas, and in some bits of salted pork that had grown old in the service.

Now when he saw them, according to the story, he did not spring up, nor did he change anything; but called out to these men from the very spot and said that he knew that they had come to see him, for that he was Carinus; and he bade them tell the young king that very day, that unless he conducted himself wisely, he might expect that the whole of their forest and plain would be in a single month barer than the head of Carinus. And as he spoke, they say that he took off his cap and showed his head, which was no more hairy than the helmet lying at his side. And he gave them leave if they were hungry to attack the stew-pot with him, but if not in need, he ordered them to depart at once, and to leave the Roman lines, as their mission was at an end.

Now it is said that when these messages were reported to the rank and file and to the leader of the enemy, namely all that had been seen and heard, at once -as might have been expected- shuddering and fear fell upon everyone at the thought of fighting men such as these, whose very king was neither ashamed of being king [1085] nor of being bald, and who, offering them a stew-pot, invited them to share his meal. And their braggart king arrived in a state of terror and was ready to yield in everything, he of the tiara and robes, to one in a simple woolen tunic and cap.

[Muzzaguchi]

Well good to have my speculations kept in check! Thanks Jona

Cheers

Murray