Gothic Reiks

[Lothia]

Ave Civitas,

I have met another snag in my story.

I know that the Goths had a title called Reik which I believe was a tribal chief.

I know that when the Goths went to war the Thuidan could not leave Gothia.

I know that when the Goths went to war the Reiks assumed a title of Draughtin which I think means something similar to War Chief.

I have two questions:

1. Was this title Draughtin appended to the title Reik or did it replace it.

In example, Larry is Reik Larry. His tribe goes to war. Does Reik Larry become Draughtin Larry or does he become Draughtin-Reik Larry?

I know the Spanish who settled New Mexico were descendents of the Goths, and they had a title of Governor-General.

2. Is this Governor-General a child of Draughtin-Reiks? (this is not terribly important except that I may use other parent-child relationships with other problems in writing my story.)

Thanks again,

Tom

[Robert Vermaat]

Hi Tom,

I know that the Goths had a title called Reik which I believe was a tribal chief.

First of all, it's called a Reiks (s.). It's a Celtic loan-word of a military or political character: compare Gaulish -rīx, and Old Irish rī, genitive rīg.
The common translation would be simply 'ruler'. The word 'rich' is related to it.

Do you know the 'Gothic online' website?
http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/ ... l-0-X.html

I know that when the Goths went to war the Reiks assumed a title of Draughtin which I think means something similar to War Chief.

Draughtin? Are you sure of that word? It doesn't ring any bells, but then I'm no Gothic expert.

In example, Larry is Reik Larry. His tribe goes to war. Does Reik Larry become Draughtin Larry or does he become Draughtin-Reik Larry?
2. Is this Governor-General a child of Draughtin-Reiks? (this is not terribly important except that I may use other parent-child relationships with other problems in writing my story.)

I'm not sure about this, other than that these claims were made during the Middle Ages, and that early migrants to the Americas called themselves 'godos' to distinguish themselves as 'Spanish-born'. It was elitist and had no bearing on a real relationship to Gothic ancestors.

[Natuspardo]

Hi Tom,
the "bible" for nearly all things related to Goths is Herwig Wolfram "Die Goten" (also in English as "The Goths").

I know that the Goths had a title called Reik which I believe was a tribal chief.

Robert is right: it is reiks, which is also related to latin rex and the greek word. In late antiquity, all three terms were spelled alike (like riks). A reiks was a kind of tribal chief yes, ruling a subdivision of the Gútthiuda ("people of the Goths", so called the Tervingi their land), a kunja.

I know that when the Goths went to war the Thuidan could not leave Gothia.

The Tervingi in the 4th century did not have a thiudans (with -s)! That term means a monarchic king, which the Tervingi hadnt (maybe lost at the end of the 3rd century). The Roman emperor was a thiudans for the Tervingi. What the Tervingi had was a tribal gathering where in times of danger they elected a kindins ("judge"). This kindins (like Athanaric) was not allowed to leave the Gútthiuda.

I know that when the Goths went to war the Reiks assumed a title of Draughtin which I think means something similar to War Chief.

I have two questions:

1. Was this title Draughtin appended to the title Reik or did it replace it.

In example, Larry is Reik Larry. His tribe goes to war. Does Reik Larry become Draughtin Larry or does he become Draughtin-Reik Larry?

*draúhtins (with -s again!) is a word not attested, but only assumed. It perhaps means a war leader who could/should leave the Gutthiuda (in contrast to the kindins). Wolfram suggests that the reiks Alaviv and Fritigern who led the Tervingi south of the Danube might have been called draúhtins to stress their military function.
So a reiks could become a draúhtins - but still remained a reiks.

I know the Spanish who settled New Mexico were descendents of the Goths, and they had a title of Governor-General.

2. Is this Governor-General a child of Draughtin-Reiks? (this is not terribly important except that I may use other parent-child relationships with other problems in writing my story.)

Tom - please disregard any of this if u want to write historically correct and not just fiction. The Visigoths that settled in Spain had not much to do with the Goths of the 4th century. Even if not - to make them the ancestors of modern Spanish would be something like - the Mongols the ancestors of the modern Chinese cause they ruled them for some time long long ago. Goths as ancestors of the Spanish kingdoms were "discovered" only in the 9th century - for political purposes. With the same "right" the Habsburger in Austria claimed them as their ancestors as did the Swedes under Gustav Adolf (could u imagin the disputes: Swedes: "The Goths came from our land. We are the right ones". Spanish: "The best ones left your land. Only the dumb were left. We are the right ones." ... 8)

[Lothia]

Ave Civitas,

You guys are great. I rely so heavily upon your knowledge. Thanks a bunch.

Now I have another question

If a Goth tribal ruler is called a Reiks, then what is the plural of that word?
That is, if one of the characters in my book is speaking of two of the tribal chiefs, what would he call them collectively? Is its plural similar to the English plural for fish, fish or deer, deer?

Okay, Natuspardo, I will disregard the relationship between the ancient Goths and the late medieval Spanish. Thanks for that tip.

Natuspardo, you wrote that:
"So a reiks could become a draúhtins - but still remained a reiks. "
Then do you think I could hyphenate their title as Drauhtins-Reiks when they are on the War-Path?

Thanks again guys.

Me.

[Ironhand]

My uneducated guess on the subject would be like with many ancient languages the plural form is the same word only put into a different connotation such as Ivar is a reiks, Ivar and Sig are reiks. Not an actual example for what it would have been, but more showing the method. Not always in old languages do you have a plural form, but the manner it is used in the sentence is different. Just a guess and don't blast me if I'm wrong.

[Natuspardo]

If a Goth tribal ruler is called a Reiks, then what is the plural of that word?

one reiks, two reiks.

Then do you think I could hyphenate their title as Drauhtins-Reiks when they are on the War-Path?

I wont accumulate the titles. It would be like a Roman senator who became general or governor for some time to be called "general-senator".

[Lothia]

Ave Vortigern Studies,

I looked up that link you provided. That is really great. It has a big listing of Gothic words too, both English > Goth and Goth > English.

Thanks again.

Me.