Question Regarding Optio\'s in Auxillary

[Palaemon]

I have read in a few sources that auxillary Centurions were posted from the regular legion's. Anyone know if they would bring an Optio with them or promote one from the auxillary ranks ?

[Palaemon]

Anyone ?

[Praefectusclassis]

Hi James,
I think the answer is: nobody knows.

[arklore70]

James,
there is not a tremendous amount of information currently on the topic.

Most information that I have come across seems to indicate that the Optio and by and large the Centurions came from with in the ranks, and the Centurions that were being transferred over where being elevated to the position of Prefect according to G. Sumner in Roman Army: Wars of the Empire.

Goldsworthy in The Complete Roman Army, page 73, states that Centurions were assumed to have risen from the ranks as well as some being directly commissioned if of being from the local aristocracy or wealthier families. If a trooper was illiterate, this would have made him unsuitable for promotion. The texts from Vindolana seem to not be written by anyone lower than a Principalis.

In the case of the Cavalry, a trooper could expect to be promoted to the rank of Decurion and be placed in a charge of a Turma at the 8-25 year mark.

Hope this helps in some way. I am not sure if Saddington explains more if somebody has a copy out there.

v/r
Mike

[D B Campbell]

Anyone know if they would bring an Optio with them or promote one from the auxillary ranks ?

I would've said it was unlikely, James.
There would be men within the unit looking for the opportunity of promotion. I assume that a new centurion arriving in post would inherit his predecessor's staff.

Looking at it from a different direction, I'm not sure how you would demonstrate that a newly appointed centurion had brought his pal along to be his optio. If that ever happened -- and my gut reaction is that it would be unlikely -- , it would be invisible in our sources.

That's just my opinion.

[Palaemon]

Oops. I did not mean it to sound like he would be bringing a pal along. I have only read a couple of references in regards to the Centurions possibly being transferred from a regular legion to an auxillary one. AFAIK, the Centurion could choose his optio. I was wondering if , assuming a Centurion was posted to the auxillary from a regular legion, he would be required to choose an optio from auxillaries he may well not be familiar with.
Thanks all for the help.

[Come in Nighthawk]

Just a thought.... Would the "hero" of the "capture" of Decebalus (ruled 87 – 106) be a model of sorts? Tiberius Claudius Maximus from Legio VII Claudia? Wasn't he supposed, based on the information from his tombstone, to have been elevated first from miles to an immunes, thence to a "cavalry scout" of the legion, and finally to decurio in a cavalry Ala? That suggests (and I stress it only suggests) that the auxiliary centurions might be found by promoting promising "youngsters" for whom promotion in the legions was otherwise unlikely or very distant? That doesn't preclude selection of "elites" from the tribal aristocracy, but would have "leavened" these with Roman citizens in the senior leadership of auxiliary cohorts, i.e. besides the Prefect? TCM was after all a citizen, having served FIRST in the legion, and then ended up a decurion in an auxiliary cavalry unit amongst & leading non-citizens??

As to the Optio? Unless the proposed new Optio were replacing a battle casualty in a unit with a LOT of casualties, wouldn't the serving Optio be a 'tad upset at being replaced (and therefore demoted!) by the new centurion's "pal?" I suspect that unless a whole draft of men was being brought in to replace a large number of losses, the new centurion was going to have to live with the "staff" already in place (as suggested already above)... at least until he had the Prefect's ear. Then he might conceivably begin to make changes. Even then, however, think of the expense and trouble of transferring men "in" unnecessarily -- especially if the new centurion had originally come in from some other province? The new centurion was probably going to be constrained to chose only from among his own men, and not bring in additional outsiders...

Just my duo dinarii 8)

[Palaemon]

Thanks everyone for your help. My working knowledge of these matters in limited, as I am new to this area of history. :oops: I am going to study the unit structure at that level a little more in depth. Once again thanks to everyone. 8)

[Tarbicus]

Don't forget that a centurion could also come straight into the army as a commission, if he had the right connections and possibly money. Not all centurions went in on merit.

[D B Campbell]

That suggests (and I stress it only suggests) that the auxiliary centurions might be found by promoting promising "youngsters" for whom promotion in the legions was otherwise unlikely or very distant?

In fact, we know of a few auxiliary decurions promoted from the legionary cavalry, probably for the very reason you've stated. So it's quite likely that many auxiliary centurions (being on a par, more or less, with the decurions) came from the ranks of the legions.

Unless the proposed new Optio were replacing a battle casualty in a unit with a LOT of casualties, wouldn't the serving Optio be a 'tad upset at being replaced (and therefore demoted!) by the new centurion's "pal?"

My point exactly.