imperium

[pvblivs cordvs]

Hi All,
recently I was watching a Roman themed movie, not really surprising I guess, when I noticed something.
In more than one movie (Masada, Spartacus a.o.) the power of Imperium is symbolized by the Legate holding, or receiving, a unadorned white rod, roughly 30 centimeters in length, supposedly ivory.
Unadorned, very unHollywood. Might there be a shre of evidence for this I have always overlooked.
Does anybody have any reference to this item.
Is it fact or fiction ?
Greets,
Wim van Broekhoven / Cordvs

www.corbvlo.com

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

Salve,Cordus,
I can't attest to the authenticity of this object but I would like to add that the one in Sparticus, I believe, had wings (an eagle at or near the top.

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

Here is a reference to a post discussing the object in a Russian forum:
http://forum.xlegio.ru/forums/thread-vi ... 128#M93128
Those who do not read Russian (he-he) may still look at the pictures.

[Caius Fabius]

But, if I understand the Russian, it is said that the 'clean spear' or baton is made of precious metals, or should that be precious materials?
And I can't get the phtos jpegs to appear unless I sign in to the forum.

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

Oh - I did not know that registration was necessary to see the pics. Here they are.

The author argues for the authenticity of the rod contrary to a position that it was Hollywood's invention and adduces the cameo of Augustus depicting the rod. Then he suggests that the rod derives from the hasta pura, and the rest of the post is the discussion of the latter.

The coins in the top row are a sestertius of Titus and a medallion of Alexander Severus.

[Jeroen Pelgrom]

looks like a military baton, the one a field marshal has.

www.diggerhistory.info/images/equipment/baton.jpg

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I can't help thinking the white rod in movies was taken from a statue that probably originally had the eagle or some symbol on it, but which broke off, and the hollywood people just saw the picture and went with it....
now if I can recall where I saw such a picture in the first place.... :?

[pvblivs cordvs]

Thanks,
I guess from here on in this subject should move to reconstruction because I'm seriously considering making this thing.
White rod will be made of a deer bone (the use of ivory could be a bit tricky), the little bronze eagle I might yet get my hands on.
Could it indeed be a hasta pura. Who could be awarded one? Only higher ranking staff if I recall correctly. What does a field marshall's baton signify by the way. Does anybody know where that is derived from.
Cheers,
Wim/Cordvs

[Hugh Fuller]

I can't help thinking the white rod in movies was taken from a statue that probably originally had the eagle or some symbol on it, but which broke off, and the hollywood people just saw the picture and went with it....
now if I can recall where I saw such a picture in the first place.... :?

In the movie, "Spartacus," with Kirk Douglas, Spartacus surprises a cohort or two of the "City Guard" in camp and destroys them. When their young commander is brought before him, he takes the white baton, breaks it in half, and stuffs it down the front of the fellow's tunic before sending him back to Rome.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I can't help thinking the white rod in movies was taken from a statue that probably originally had the eagle or some symbol on it, but which broke off, and the hollywood people just saw the picture and went with it....
now if I can recall where I saw such a picture in the first place.... :?

In the movie, "Spartacus," with Kirk Douglas, Spartacus surprises a cohort or two of the "City Guard" in camp and destroys them. When their young commander is brought before him, he takes the white baton, breaks it in half, and stuffs it down the front of the fellow's tunic before sending him back to Rome.

No, sorry, I am trying to remember where i saw a statue holding a white rod...which may have been holywoods inspiration... :?

[Hugh Fuller]

I found an interesting series of entries in the Roman Army Page Glossary

Fustibalis (LA): staff sling.
Fustis (LA): baton; staff used as badge of office.
Fustuarium (LA): death penalty by stoning or cudgeling.

To this I would add the point that the fasces carried to symbolize the imperium of curule officials was a bundle of staffs that could be used to beat someone caught misbehaving and, outside the pomerium, the fasces carried the axe or, if in the case of a Dictator, even within the pomerium. Also add to this the indication that at least some curule officials carried a baton and that centurions carried the vitis or vine staff for beatng their charges and you begin to get a picture of the origin of the baton. it seems rather similar to the bacula as carried by William of Normandy's brother Odo, Bishop of Bayeux.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Ahhhhh Odo.......this brings to mind a song....