Looking for armor & helm

[Faelan]

Hello everybody.

I'm looking for a set of lorica segmentata and a helm at the moment, but I've got a bit of a different set of requirements than most of the people here.

I'm a heavy combatant in the SCA, so I need to find kit that will stand up to the beating it will take on the battle field, and will pass armor inspections. I *am* interested in at least a *reasonable* level of authenticity, though in my case stainless is a plus simply because it's easier to maintain (fewer dents, no rust).

Given the number of Roman-style fighters I've seen in past years at Pennsic, I figured there'd be a good chance that at least a few people here might be able to help me out. I'm currently torn between two possibilities (a lorica and helm (which I can't use) up on ebay, or a Deepeeka lorica which I've seen gets high marks for authenticity. In either case, I'm just not sure about how well it will stand up to actual combat.

(The ebay lorica in question is here. From the info I've gotten from the seller, it seems to be 18ga mild steel, but that's all she knows.

There's another one here, but I'm not sure about it as far as authenticity goes, and for just $30 or so more I can get the stainless Deepeeka from SotW, and that's a pretty low premium for the known authenticity.

Unfortunately, while I've found a pretty good wealth of options for the lorica, I've got the opposite situation as far as helms. I've found only 2 sources for SCA legal Roman-style helms.

Sir Sven's Armory - Roman 1st Century Infantry Helmet here.
or
Waldryk - Roman Legionary Helm here.

I'm looking for other options still on that front.

Any help is appreciated.

[rusty myers]

The SS Deepeeka runs about 18 gauge, not sure if it will pass SCAinspection, but it is tough. Hinges are pretty good, though you may want to do some reinforcing to the leathers and buckles, as they are the weakest things. The second helm looks bettter of the two, not bad at all given some of the SCA stuff I have seen! I think it would even work in some re-enactment circles if you decided to come out. Not perfect, but looks pretty good for the fighting helms of the sca.

[Hibernicus]

Occaisionally available...
http://www.rlqm.com/sca_imp_rom_a.html

[QVINTVS ARTORIVS CORVINVS]

Also, you might want to check out Brand's site.
<http://westcoastarmoury.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21&osCsid=2ffc76ecf2938d609763d1ddfbba5302>

PS- I have some of Hibernicus' helms and they are rock solid and look great!

[scythius]

You may want to check on Waldryk's repitation for non-delivery over at the Armour Archive. He's pretty well known for accepting payment, and then not delivering...

[Palaemon]

Try Richard at Knotwolf armory, he does some rock solid helms. I believe he has a gallic helm in stock right now. My SCA helm is a Gallic from him. Have you thought about making your own SCA lorica? It is not that hard, and you could use a better material for SCA ( impact ) combat, like aluminum. ( I know, I know, it is only for SCA representation !! 8) .

http://www.knotwolf.com/mambo/index.php ... &Itemid=28

[Dean Cunningham metalsmim]

It's funny to see a couple of the SCA helmets copy (or arrived on their own) the hinged cheeks and movable face guard. One has the scorpion design I used on a SCA combat helmet. No SCA helmet I've ever seen (or made) looks like a real roman helmet due to the concerns of SCA style fighting. You can get reasonably close but then again one marshal will pass you and another will not?! This is one of the reasons I don't do SCA anymore, no real rules just politics. I've had marshals not pass my Roman helmet because of the neck flair and the brow guard(never mind it was 14g and couldn't be crushed by a truck. Yet some guy in a movers blanket coat,leather knee and elbow cops and a flimsy helmet will walk right through. NO standards at all! You take your chances with the marshals.

[Faelan]

At this point, the helm I've decided on is going to be mild steel, so I'll be going with mild steel for the armor as well. Yeah, I think I'm going to try making the armor. (Probably 16ga for the extra durability.) I know a few guys who can probably help teach me some of the techniques for shaping the plates. I just need to find a good source for the steel, and maybe pick up a new anvil as mine currently has a peg (drawing a blank on the real name) stuck in the square hole (again drawing a blank on the name) that I use for peening rivets in awkward places. I'll have to get a sheet-metal cutter, too, but from what I understand they're pretty cheap at Harbor Freight, and I'm about 4 miles from one.

@ Scythius
Thanks for the heads up on Waldryk. It's an unfortunate fact of life that many armorers just can't scale up to the work-load they get when people hear about their quality, and end up just buried and don't know how to manage things. Fortunately, I've not yet been bitten by it myself.

@ Palaemon
I don't want to go with aluminum for the exposed armor. You've got to use much thicker pieces, and there's just no way to make it look like steel. I might use it for pieces that are hidden, but generally leather's easier to work with and more readily available to me. (Besides, the left-overs can be useful for other stuff.)

@ Dean
I'll concede that no SCA helm will look authentic because of the safety standards, but those safety standards are explicitly spelled out in the rules. The rules you were probably falling foul to were likely the neck protection rules, and/or the rules about the widest gap in the helm. Some marshals (unfortunately) will let someone whose gear doesn't meet the prescribed standards through if they're 'close enough', or if the person acknowledges they're aware of the problem and willing to risk it.

The short version of the rules is as follows:
Minimum armor consists of a steel helm of at least 16ga stainless or 14ga mild steel (some kingdoms allow 16ga across the board). Rigid over soft kidney protection (a thick leather belt over padding meets this requirement). Rigid over soft for the elbows and knees (again, thick or hardened leather over padding meets this requirement. A gorget (again, rigid over soft) to protect the neck. The helm can't have any gaps over 1" at the widest point, and if you can get the tip of a sword onto bare skin on the neck you're gorget isn't going to pass (unless a marshal is rushed and forgets to check that). Add boots, and you're set to go. That's the minimum standard, so anything past that is even better. There's more details, but if you pay attention to them, you can get on any list field you want.

As for the authenticity portion of that, the SCA errs toward inclusion. We'd much rather someone have a chance to try things and find their place, than require that they spend a few hundred dollars on gear before they know if they even *like* something.

The SCA is stricter than they need to be about safety standards for combat because (as us fighters like to say), we want to "kill our friends, not hurt them". Injuries on the field suck. The standards we have mean that, from an insurance perspective, SCA heavy combat is approximately as dangerous as Olympic level ping pong, and that's what makes it *possible* for us to find sites to run events with fighting.

Yes, we get our share of stick-jocks who are just there to fight, and wear plainly visible plastic armor, but it's a small price to pay in exchange. Overall we probably have as many high-end authenticity folks as any other reenactment group, but the narrower focus of those other groups generally means they don't attract as many people, so we also have more low-authenticity people who either can't easily afford the era they want to play in, or simply don't know what era they *want* to play in.

[Dean Cunningham metalsmim]

I would differ with the fact there are rules that are followed. Like I said if you are sporting a white belt or you're a "well known" persona you don't have to follow any rules, period. I was involved in the SCA for many years (even have an AOA) and still go to events with the reenactment group. The rules are in place as a cover for the insurance issues but what I witness on a REGULAR basis is those who have some sort of privilege or standing in the group are EXEMPT from the rules. This makes it difficult to do any period other than fantasy or medieval without serious risk of running afoul of the Marshals.