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Sarmatian (or Scythian) soldiers in the 1st century AD
#46
Marcvs this pommel was an experiment to see how the sword would handle with a stone pommel, I did not think the owner would like it at first, but he loved it Big Grin D D D
[Image: P1310684.jpg]
Regards Brennivs Big Grin
Woe Ye The Vanquished
                     Brennvs 390 BC
When you have all this why do you envy our mud huts
                     Caratacvs
Centvrio Princeps Brennivs COH I Dacorivm (Roma Antiqvia)
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#47
It is my speculative reconstruction of Sarmatian cataphract of the I-II ceturies A.D. Based upon artifacts from grave at Tiflisskaya stanitsa. But added manicae, leg protection and horse armour wich not included in grave materials.
Andrei Negin


«multos castra iuvant et lituo tubae permixtus sonitus bellaque matribus detestata» - Horatius
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#48
Quote:It is my speculative reconstruction of Sarmatian cataphract of the I-II ceturies A.D. Based upon artifacts from grave at Tiflisskaya stanitsa. But added manicae, leg protection and horse armour wich not included in grave materials.

Don't say too quickly 'speculative'. Don't forget they were descendants from the Massagetae, so they must have known arm and leg armour.
During their wonderings on the steppe they only clashed with other nomads. In these clashes the most vulnerable part of the body was their upper body. So they may have dismissed the arm and leg armour then. I am convinced while clashing with the Romans (sedentary people, infantry) they reintroduced the arm and certainly the leg armour, while in these battles the legs were the most vulnerable parts.
Very nice artwork. Would you consider making a reconstruction of a very early saka cavalryman wearing the persian armoured saddle as protection around his legs?
Greetings
Philip
Philip van Geystelen
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#49
"Speculative" only as I used artefacts from one grave for reconstruction, but complete this material with arm, leg and horse armour by literary and iconographic sources. As result not exact reconstruction of the buried warrior. I know several successful artwork reconstructions of heavy persian cavalryman with armoured saddle and I can't complete these with any new details Smile
Andrei Negin


«multos castra iuvant et lituo tubae permixtus sonitus bellaque matribus detestata» - Horatius
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#50
Quote:"Speculative" only as I used for reconstruction artefacts from one grave, but complete this material with arm, leg and horse armour by literary and iconographic sources. As result not exact reconstruction of the buried warrior. I know several successful artwork reconstructions of heavy persian cavalryman with armoured saddle and I can't complete these with any new details Smile

Could you scan these good artworks of persians wearing parapleuridia for me please? I can't seem to find any historically correct ones. Most of the pictures I know of are wearing too wing-like protections.
Seeing your good artwork , I thought an attempt by you would have a great result.
Thanks
Philip
Philip van Geystelen
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#51
OK! I will scan for you from Russian books and will send you by Email as PM. I am not great specialist on ancient Near East (I study roman military equipment), but I something know about eastern armour Smile
Andrei Negin


«multos castra iuvant et lituo tubae permixtus sonitus bellaque matribus detestata» - Horatius
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#52
Quote:Salvete,

Were can I find info on the appearance of Sarmatian or Scythian soldiers in the 1st century AD?

If you speak German, you may want to obtain a copy of:

A. Simonenko, Bewaffnung und Kriegswesen der Sarmaten und der späten Skyhten im noerdlichen Schwarzmeergebiet, EURASIA ANTIQUA 2001, P. 187 et seq.

The article has over 100 pages full of drawings of finds, most of which apparently are otherwise available only in Russian publications and also a few reconstruction drawings.

To me the most surprising fact was that the helmet type best represented was actually the Montefortino helmet with dozens having been found in Russia/Ukraine etc.
Regards,


Jens Horstkotte
Munich, Germany
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#53
Quote:
Quote:Salvete,

Were can I find info on the appearance of Sarmatian or Scythian soldiers in the 1st century AD?

If you speak German, you may want to obtain a copy of:

A. Simonenko, Bewaffnung und Kriegswesen der Sarmaten und der späten Skyhten im noerdlichen Schwarzmeergebiet, EURASIA ANTIQUA 2001, P. 187 et seq.

The article has over 100 pages full of drawings of finds, most of which apparently are otherwise available only in Russian publications and also a few reconstruction drawings. To me the most surprising fact was that the helmet type best represented was actually the Montefortino helmet with dozens having been found in Russia/Ukraine etc.

If you speak (read) Russian you may find many useful information!!!
In Russia we have a lot of archeologist publications about Sarmatians. If you serious study Sarmatians, you must read Russian!
In fact that in Russia and Ukraine was found about 20 Montefortino helmets.
Andrei Negin


«multos castra iuvant et lituo tubae permixtus sonitus bellaque matribus detestata» - Horatius
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#54
Aboslutely! The bibliography in the article lists hundreds of publications in Russian. I very much deplore that I do not speak a single word of Russian:

The article lists the following find spots of Montefortino helmets:

Belen'koe
Veselaja Dolina
Mar'evka
Melitopol'
Provol'e / Privoi'e
Novoprochorovka
Novocerkassk
Antipovka
Mariental'
Chutor Veselyji
Sergievskaja
Sovchoz Micurina
Vladimirskaja
Rogovskaja
Cegem II
Sereginskaja
Kislovodsk

Maybe you are near one and could provide pics for the helmet database? Smile
Regards,


Jens Horstkotte
Munich, Germany
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#55
Maybe you are near one and could provide pics for the helmet database? Smile [/quote]

What about drawings of this helmets in the paper? Sorry, but I live far away from these museums Sad
See photos of the Montefortino helmet (IV-III centuries B.C.) found this spring in Semiluksky district of Voronezh region. This is accidental find of local inhabitant sold to the second-hand dealer of non-ferrous metals.
Andrei Negin


«multos castra iuvant et lituo tubae permixtus sonitus bellaque matribus detestata» - Horatius
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#56
There are actually drawings in the paper but I could not publish them in the database for copyright reasons.

The photos you provided are very interesting

LAUS and Thank you!
Regards,


Jens Horstkotte
Munich, Germany
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#57
Quote:There are actually drawings in the paper but I could not publish them in the database for copyright reasons.

You may redraw all images and no problem with copyright!
Andrei Negin


«multos castra iuvant et lituo tubae permixtus sonitus bellaque matribus detestata» - Horatius
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#58
Priviet Andrei !

Maybe You've this : Хазанов А.М. Очерки военного дела сарматов.

I read Russian Smile D
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#59
Tony,

I am making a fourth century Alanic sword from a 37" damascus blank, but having trouble finding a round stone for the pommel. Most jewler suppiers list tourquise up to 30mm. It's not Bactrian, but at least it's Asiatic stone. I wonder if it's big enough.

I'm not a great fan of using the term "Sarmatian," simply because it's too confusing. Littleton and Malcor called the Iazyges "Sarmatian," but they were actually Sauromatae related to the northwestern Scythians and used short swords. I suppose these would have been more or less like an akinakes. After they were joined by the Roxolani (true Alans), both the Roxolani and Iazyges disappeared from the history books, then recorded as the "Sarmatians," circa AD 180 and beyond. Therefore, the Iazyges stationed in Britain by Marcus Aurelius were not using Alanic long swords.

The Russians have more or less followed the Alans back to the Ural Basin (especially Fillipovka), then to the Lake Issyk/Tien Shan, then to the Altai. The Alans were northeastern Iranian with an admixture of Asiatic features in the nasal and facial structure, yet mostly blonde-- enough to be "rokhs."
They were relanted to the Saka/Sacae and were also known as the Massagetae, and not closely related to the Sauromatiae/Scythians. This Alanic culture interests me as a Roman reenactor in the Cohorts I Pannonarium. Most of their swords, even older ones, seem to be at least 85cm long. I laud anyone trying to wield a 100cm sword. Forty inches is brute.

If anyone knows of a good source to authentic stone-- Bactrian tourquoise, Uralic or Indic garnets-- such items would be helpfut not only for late period Alanic swords, but for "Black Sea style" jewelry such as the round Gothic fibulas used on late military cloaks.

Buenos Nachos,
Alanus
Alan J. Campbell
Legio III Cyenaica
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
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#60
Great stuff Alanvs Big Grin ? Hmm this is a tricky one. This is a problem they are very few found. Even the one I have a pic of has no scale, So best bet is to think of balance and gauge the size from that and 30mm is too small.
[Image: Romans1025.jpg]
I hope this gives you an idea of scale if I can find the size I will post Big Grin
[Image: P1310684-1.jpg]
Now this one is a disc pommel for the 4th AD it is aprox 45mm across and 25mm thick I will need to think of the blade thickness to be able to use it.
I agree with the use of Sarmation as it always denotes that they are more than one tribe involved but thats history for you.
For blade length yes It is worth a go at the size it is down to profile and again blade thickness Big Grin
[Image: Romans1024.jpg]
The two middle ones are nearly 32" long 81cm Confusedhock: but you have to taper the blade to make it work or it becomes to blade heavy. Were as the far right is much thicker blade but only 27" ,69cm. When you do your blade please post pics and I will be in touch when I have info Big Grin
Regards Brennivs Big Grin
Woe Ye The Vanquished
                     Brennvs 390 BC
When you have all this why do you envy our mud huts
                     Caratacvs
Centvrio Princeps Brennivs COH I Dacorivm (Roma Antiqvia)
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