09-24-2007, 06:12 AM
Here are some statistics and facts from the second Punic War, which provide some food for thought:-
* There were roughly 37-39 major battles between Romans and Carthaginians ( depending on whether some are 'doublets' or not - like Herdonea) spread over 16 years, taking place in Spain, Italy and North Africa
*Battle was generally by mutual consent, often after several days preliminary skirmishing
* Numbers were rarely equal, which does not seem to have put off commanders from 'having a go'. The smaller army could consist of as little as 60% of the larger, but on average the smaller army was within 10-15% of the larger. Surprisingly, having the larger army did not always guarantee success, with the smaller army winning as often as the larger !
hock:
* Overall, the Romans won more often than the Carthaginians (surprise, surprise! ), winning 50% of the time to Carthage's 35% with the rest indecisive
* Hannibal reverses this trend
evil: :twisted:
In 6 of his victories, he all but totally destroys his opponent (Trebia 218 b.c., Trasimene 217 b.c. Cannae 216b.c. Campania 212 b.c. Herdonea 212 and 210 b.c. ( assuming not a 'doublet')
* Few battles resulted in decisive victories (only 13- 6 of which are Hannibal, remember 8)
* Decisive battles required some of the following factors:-
-trapped in confined terrain (e.g. Trasimene,Herdonea 212 b.c.)
- surrounded and crowded together (e.g.Cannae 216 b.c.Zama 202b.c.)
- the winner successfully storms the loser's camp ( Herdonea 210 b.c. )
- the losers suffer a long pursuit by cavalry (Zama 202 b.c. )
- ambush on the march or while setting up or leaving camp (Trasimene 217 b.c., Castra Cornelia 204 b.c.)
*Inconclusive battles (at least 6) were usually long slogging matches, ended by nightfall or routs where the winners were too tired/injured to pursue, or the losers successfully defended their camp (Placentia 218 b.c.)
* Most battles seem to have lasted 3-4 hours before one side broke. Most began after full daylight with the armies being led out of camp and formed up, often taking several hours to do this.
* Casualties tended to be as follows :-
....Type of Battle.........%losses(rough average).............%prisoners
......................................winners......losers...........................................
.......Decisive victory.........2-20%........50-90%.....................10-15%......
.......Pursued victory..........2-5% ........35-45%.......................5-10%.......
...Un-pursued victory.........2-15%.......15-35%........................5-7%........
...Inconclusive battle..........5-15%.......5-15%..........................-----.........
Battles could therefore be very bloody, particularly Hannibal's :twisted: where enemy casualties could be very severe indeed. (e.g.Trasimene,Cannae,Zama )
* numbers of wounded are rarely given, though Livy says that the Romans under Scipio
in defeating the spanish Illergetes, suffered 1200 dead, and 3000 wounded - quite credible given that a rough rule-of-thumb is 3-1.
* The camp was very important, and it was usually sited on a treeless well watered hilltop if possible. In 15 battles out of the 37-39, the losers take shelter in the camp. In 9 cases it is stormed by the winners, in the balance the winners were too tired/weak and withdrew .
* Armies seem to break once casualties reach around 15%, and after breaking, an army would lose two-three times as many again in the pursuit phase ( if one was carried out), while the pursuer's losses are minimal
* Prisoners were frequently taken ( aprox 1 for every 4 killed) and usually ended up as booty sold into slavery.
I am indebted to an old article by Andrew Eastwood for much of the above information.
* There were roughly 37-39 major battles between Romans and Carthaginians ( depending on whether some are 'doublets' or not - like Herdonea) spread over 16 years, taking place in Spain, Italy and North Africa
*Battle was generally by mutual consent, often after several days preliminary skirmishing
* Numbers were rarely equal, which does not seem to have put off commanders from 'having a go'. The smaller army could consist of as little as 60% of the larger, but on average the smaller army was within 10-15% of the larger. Surprisingly, having the larger army did not always guarantee success, with the smaller army winning as often as the larger !
hock: * Overall, the Romans won more often than the Carthaginians (surprise, surprise! ), winning 50% of the time to Carthage's 35% with the rest indecisive
* Hannibal reverses this trend
evil: :twisted: In 6 of his victories, he all but totally destroys his opponent (Trebia 218 b.c., Trasimene 217 b.c. Cannae 216b.c. Campania 212 b.c. Herdonea 212 and 210 b.c. ( assuming not a 'doublet')
* Few battles resulted in decisive victories (only 13- 6 of which are Hannibal, remember 8)
* Decisive battles required some of the following factors:-
-trapped in confined terrain (e.g. Trasimene,Herdonea 212 b.c.)
- surrounded and crowded together (e.g.Cannae 216 b.c.Zama 202b.c.)
- the winner successfully storms the loser's camp ( Herdonea 210 b.c. )
- the losers suffer a long pursuit by cavalry (Zama 202 b.c. )
- ambush on the march or while setting up or leaving camp (Trasimene 217 b.c., Castra Cornelia 204 b.c.)
*Inconclusive battles (at least 6) were usually long slogging matches, ended by nightfall or routs where the winners were too tired/injured to pursue, or the losers successfully defended their camp (Placentia 218 b.c.)
* Most battles seem to have lasted 3-4 hours before one side broke. Most began after full daylight with the armies being led out of camp and formed up, often taking several hours to do this.
* Casualties tended to be as follows :-
....Type of Battle.........%losses(rough average).............%prisoners
......................................winners......losers...........................................
.......Decisive victory.........2-20%........50-90%.....................10-15%......
.......Pursued victory..........2-5% ........35-45%.......................5-10%.......
...Un-pursued victory.........2-15%.......15-35%........................5-7%........
...Inconclusive battle..........5-15%.......5-15%..........................-----.........
Battles could therefore be very bloody, particularly Hannibal's :twisted: where enemy casualties could be very severe indeed. (e.g.Trasimene,Cannae,Zama )
* numbers of wounded are rarely given, though Livy says that the Romans under Scipio
in defeating the spanish Illergetes, suffered 1200 dead, and 3000 wounded - quite credible given that a rough rule-of-thumb is 3-1.* The camp was very important, and it was usually sited on a treeless well watered hilltop if possible. In 15 battles out of the 37-39, the losers take shelter in the camp. In 9 cases it is stormed by the winners, in the balance the winners were too tired/weak and withdrew .
* Armies seem to break once casualties reach around 15%, and after breaking, an army would lose two-three times as many again in the pursuit phase ( if one was carried out), while the pursuer's losses are minimal
* Prisoners were frequently taken ( aprox 1 for every 4 killed) and usually ended up as booty sold into slavery.
I am indebted to an old article by Andrew Eastwood for much of the above information.
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
