Peltast Impression

[Gaius_Calvus]

Hi folks,

I am an active Roman re-enactor, but one troop type that has always interested me was the mercenary peltast. Thus, I would like to create a later peltast/thureophorus impression.

Any references to them, and expecially their arms, armor, fighting techniques would be very helpful to me, especially sources of supply for appropriate kit items.

Thanks for your help!

Regards,

Edge

[JP Vieira]

Hello
Perhaps this could help you get inspired

For more information check this thread
Iphicrates' reforms
Best regards
JP Vieira

[zugislander]

Hello Edge,

I have long thought about it as well. I have a Manning Imperial Pylos helmet, and staunchly recommend him for anything he makes. I also have some javelin heads from Native Way that are very reeasonably priced, look good and were easy to work with. I am not sure about JP's wicker shield, but it would seem that it would be easiest to do the Theuros as it would be similar to the Scutums you already have experience with. Natascha's Cafe sells nice lace up sandals. Side arms I am not sure about.

Best wishes and send lots of pictures.

Cordially,

Michael

[hoplite14gr]

JP Vieiras' image is a good starting point.

For references you may try the term "thyreophoroi" for simples pletasts sand "Thorakitae" for armored peltasts even "imitation roman troops".

Sidearms range from daggers to hoplite swords and kopis.
Sulla Beotian allies against Taxilus were more probably thyreophoroi.

Kind regards

[Gaius_Calvus]

Thanks very much, everyone!

I really appreciate your kind assistance!

Regards,

Edge

[zugislander]

If the Kopis works La Wren's Nest has a Depeeka version for $38 in the basement sale section. No scabbard though.

Michael

[Gaius_Calvus]

Nice -- thanks Michael!!!

[Gaius_Calvus]

Stefanos,

An impression based on Sulla's allies against Taxilus would be very interesting to me.

Would the DPKa Boeotian helmet be acceptable, do you think? With the kopis mentioned above?

Regards,

Edge

[hoplite14gr]

The "pilos" and the "attic" helmets are safer bets but I cannot rule out the "beotian" or even roman types by the time of Sulla.

Old Beotian families "Spartoi" are mentioned by Plutarch in 1st century A.D.

So asuming that the Beotian allied leader is a "Spartos" he might carry a "Beotian" helmet, red snake on a white thyreos and a spear point embroidered on his chiton at his right shoulder.

Tharcian boots or "beotian boots" (see Greek footware thread) are an option.

Hope I helped

Kind regards

[Gaius_Calvus]

Stefanos -- absolutely. This is GREAT information. I am getting very excited about this.

Regards,

Edge

[Nicholas Gaukroger]

If you are interested in thyreophoroi the article here may be of interest:

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sarson ... ates2.html

[Gaius_Calvus]

Super -- thanks, Nik!

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

And I'm sure I had an image of another very nice fresco showing Alexandria ans some thureophoroi under a tent,but I can't find it...
Khaire
Giannis

[geala]

Hello,

as always, Duncan Heads book "Armies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars" is a very good source to get an impression and a lot of stalwart facts (p. 114 in this case). Nick Secundas books about the later reformed Seleucid and Ptolemaic armies of the 2nd c. BC also show a lot of them, together with sources.

Unfortunately vase pictures went out of mode in the 3rd c. BC but some grave stelae exist which show thureophoroi. You can perhaps imagine as a "norm" a soldier with a typical coloured (f.e. red, rose, white, yellow, light blue etc.) knee-length chiton with short sleeves or, more common, false sleeves, with a Hellenistic Macedonian Thrakian type helmet, an oval thureos shield of a size of about 85 cm x 45 cm to 100 cm x 50 cm (or even bigger), a straight multi-purpose sword, 2 or 3 javelins and a medium sized spear of the dory type. Boots (plain leather boots or strapped sandal boots with leather or linen socks inside, covering the ankle or reaching to the mid calf) seemed to be common, only few warriors are shown barefoot (contrary to earlier hoplites)

Wether they were "peltasts" in the older sense, namely pure missile troops with javelins, is doubtful. There are some pictures which show thureophoroi bearing spears together with javelins. Perhaps pure javelin troops also existed (I believe so).

The pilos helmet would be a bit outdated in the 3rd c. BC but not impossible. I just recently saw a grave stelae in the museum in Sirakusa of about 300 BC (of a cavalryman) in which an assisting infantry soldier is shown with a pilos helmet with cheek pieces.

The mosaic Giannis mentioned is perhaps that from Praenestum in Italy from the early 1st c. BC? Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nile_mosaic_of_Palestrina
It is argued a lot because some people identify the soldiers as Roman legionaries or praetorianians in Egypt. If so, it would be very strange Roman soldiers. I believe that Ptolemaic Hellenistic soldiers are shown, copied from a earlier Greek antetype. The shown soldiers in the lower left corner could give an image of thureophoroi and thorakitai (armoured soldiers).

I hope you will continue your plan to re-enact such a soldier. It is a very interesting time and the Greeks need manpower all the time.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Thanks Wolfgang for posting that!Yes this was the mosaic I was refering to!I had a low res picture and I thought it was a fresco.It's awesome! And funny... it writes the names of the animals and some of them are unknown...like "krokodilopardalis" and terrestrial crocodile etc.
On topic, it is indeed doubtful if they are thureophoroi,because they have kind of odd shield.Some of them are not oval and some of the oval ones have rims...But I don't think they are romans either.One of them has a phrygian helmet(the far left) and wears thracian boots.Thorakitai or Thureophoroi I don't know...but they don't wear mail si what kind of Thorakitai are they???
Khairete
Giannis