Germans! (Or anyone else), lend me your ears!

[M.H. White]

So I've been to Roma herself a couple of times, loved it, and now I'm ready to go see whats left of Rome in the provinces. A friend and I are discussing taking a trip to Spain and Germany to see the ruins, digs, museums, etc. I have a Spanish history professor at my university to advise me on where to go for Roman things in Spain, but what I don't have is someone who can advise me on the same sort of thing in Germany.

I speak a fair bit of university-taught Hoch Deutsch, though I have learned through friends who have spent some time studying in Germany that it isn't always enough to communicate properly with folks(I've read a pocket-sized book about Bayerisch and it made my head spin.) I'm also interested in furthering my language skills while I'm there.

Any advice on where to go and what to see concerning Roman ruins/archealogy in Germany with an eye to cost effectiveness and less-than-fluent language skills would be absolutely great.

[Medusa Gladiatrix]

Check out these links:

http://www.strasse-der-roemer.de/cgi-bin/cms
http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/uni/ymu/
http://www.apx.de/
http://www.lwl.org/LWL/Kultur/WMfA_Haltern/
http://www.villa-borg.de/uebersicht.asp?Sprache=de
http://www.kulturpark-online.de/
http://www.roemerpark-ruffenhofen.de/start.htm

Hope this helps.

[M.H. White]

Thus I am reminded that the vocabulary I have acquired speaking about the sort of things our textbook and professor require us to speak about is woefully inadequate in a wider sense. Nevertheless I shall struggle on! Websites in German are good practice anyway. Thanks for the links!

[Carlton Bach]

If communication is a concern for you, you will want to stick to major cities. Fortunately, that's where a lot of Roman stuff is. Depending on how you come in (by plane, train, car?) and how long you have, you can concentrate on the southwest of the country and go through some of its major places of interest starting from your point of entry (if you're flying, it'll probably be Frankfurt or Munich).

You *need* to do

Cologne (Römisch-Germanisches Museum and ruins)

Mainz (Römisch-Germanisches Zentralmuseum, but more importantly Landesmuseum and Museum für antike Schiffahrt)

Trier (imperial basilica and porta nigra, episcopal museum)

If you've been to Germany in search of Rome and haven't been there, everyone will laugh at you.

Then, you can also do:

Bonn (Rheinisches Landesmuseum, nice collection)

Augsburg (Roman museum, very nice collection)

Regensburg (city museum, ditto, some interesting small finds on display)

Stuttgart (Landesmuseum, I haven't been but have heard much good)

Nuremberg (Germanisches Nationalmuseum has a new gallery of provincial Roman and iron age stuff open now, but no ruins)

I'm not sure the collection in Munich is open again (there are lots of imported atniquities on display, but those aren't what you're after, are they)

All those places are reassuiringly big and reasoinably touristified, so language shouldn't be a concern. Generally, though, Germans, especially younger ones, tend to speak reasonable English, so if you want to go a little off the beaten track, I would recommend:

Xanten (archeological park, quite nifty reconstructions of Roman buildings on the site of an ancient settlement (the place itself got plundered clean of building stone in the Middle Ages. Bloody awkward to get to by train, though)

Aalen (Limesmuseum, a museum on the site of an old cavalry castra - the town was named after its ala - dedicated to the Roman military. Publishers of a great series of small, high-density booklets for enthusiasts and sponsors of Junkelmann before he was a God)

Saalburg (rebuilt infantry fort, built under Kaiser Bill, so not entirely up-to-date, but with a nice collection and a competent staff that can explain all the inaccuracies and do their best to give an accurate portrayal of life in a Limes fort. Also home to some of the earliest Roman artillery reconstructions)

If you can expand your hunt a little beyond the borders, you might want to consider Carnuntum near Vienna and/or Nijmegen in the Netherlands.

Other than this, just about any place west of the Rhine and south of the Danube has its share of Roman finds, and the German museum scene is very decentral. So you'll find something to see almost anywhere you go. For the most cost-effective strategy, you'll want to get some cheap rail travel option (I think you qualify for EuroRail passes, but check out whether regional rail day tickets won't turn out cheaper) and hopscotch your way along the Rhine/Danube frontier. Rail travel in Germany is reasonably fast, very convenient, and remarkably pricey, so make sure you scrimp where you can (don't be misled by cut-price super-saver ticket ads, the rates only apply if you book a specific train weeks or months in advance). I did something like this once starting in cologne and working my way over to Trier, Aachen and Xanten, then heading for Bonn, Mainz and Aalen. All within easy distance.

[M.H. White]

Thats very helpful. Vielen Dank! I'm definitely ready to go ahead and leave now. I'm honestly not really sure whether communication should be a worry for me or not. The thing is, after studying German for three years, I don't really want to travel to Germany and then rely on speaking English to everyone, though I've heard Germans are notorious for wanting to practice their English on Anglophone tourists who want to practice their German!

[Jona Lendering]

I fully agree with Carlton: Cologne, Mainz, Trier are the most important sights. The Saalburg can be added to your visit to Mainz; Stuttgart, Aalen and Rainau (open air museum) can be done on one day, if you start early.

If you like to go across the border, here is my Germania Inferior itinerary. You may also like this page. At least I enjoyed creating it.

I've heard Germans are notorious for wanting to practice their English on Anglophone tourists who want to practice their German!

Yes, the Germans are sometimes a bit too polite. That's why I'm so fond of them.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

No one mentioned Kalkriese?

EDIT : OK, should have checked jona's link before I spoke! :roll:

[Tib. Gabinius]

Carlton gave a very good list. Use it.
If you visit Cologne, Bonn is just a half hour away, so you can visit both on one day. If you need help in here, feel free to ask.

[caiusbeerquitius]

The new museum in Manching is quite nice, also. If you should come to Augsburg I´ll give you a tour through the museum, if you want.
www.museum-manching.de/

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

Hi,Marshal,
I was just in Germany in May of this year and can say that the list provided is a very good place to start. I did visit the Stuttgart museum (a small, but very impressive collection including some quite famous Greek
vases. Roman stuff is on the top floor accessable only by stairs.Go early.
I got there 30 minutes before closing. Great stuff from other eras,too.
Also, Aalen is one of my favorites. A really great museum. More things than I can tell here. Highly recommended.
You can follow the Limes trail from Stuttgart to Aalen that has places all along the way. Be sure and check out the stuff in Schwaebisch Gmuend
on the way to Aalen. There are road signs proclaiming the Roman Limes-
strasse. Have a great trip. I'll be happy to give more details with pics if you want. Just P.M. me.
Andy

[Simplex]

Hi Marshal,
...well I think actually there are still some more interesting roman sites in Germany, but I also think Carlton B's list might well be the perfect solution for your requirements.
I'd also like to add that there are 2 further museums at Trier, the Rheinisches Landesmuseum and the Museum at the Simeonstift
(Kind of a "metropolitan" museum at a minor scale compared to the Landesmuseum that also covers the areas around and near Trier -- my first pick of all THREE museums clearly would be the Landesmuseum).
Now to foster your confusion a bit more (literally speakin' :wink: ) I'd also like to add a linklist that shows even some websites in English :
[url:6uu91lqj]http://www.obib.eu/Links/archlink.php#tp001[/url], scroll down to
"Antike" and klick on "Römer Linkseite bei OBib" (part of [url:6uu91lqj]http://www.obib.eu[/url] ,) which leads you to notable websites like (amongst others):
[url:6uu91lqj]http://http://www.deutsche-limeskommission.de/de/home/literatur_infos.html[/url]
or just: [url:6uu91lqj]http://www.deutsche-limeskommission.de.html[/url]
O.K. , in fact I hope I'm not overdoing things again, here.
:roll:
Greez
Siggi K.

[M.H. White]

Thanks to all for the advice and help.

After talking to some friends who have gone that route already, I'm about two-thirds decided that I'm just going to get it done with and spend the spring/summer semester at the Universität Trier. That way I can make some strides toward acquiring fluency in Deutsch and I can visit ALL of the sites mentioned here. Not to mention I can satiate my longing to make a return to the Eternal City on a weekend trip or something. I guess I better hone my beer-drinking(and Fußball) skills if I'm going to be hanging with the Germans. 8)

Too bad I won't be able to bring my kit with me (I assume?) The thought of going to a reenactment with you crazy Euros somewhere that the Romans actually marched/fought just blows my mind.

[Tib. Gabinius]

I'm sure, if your here in german and say you ll would visit a camp of a group, there will be someone or a group who will lend you some of their stuff to do it
Have fun here (and there are enough germans who prefer to drink nothing or vino )

[Jona Lendering]

Saalburg (rebuilt infantry fort, built under Kaiser Bill, so not entirely up-to-date....

Actually, its Wilhelminian nature is one of the delights of it. I've been there two times with groups, and love to explain how, in the Wilhelminian age, Germany was dealing with its Germanic, Greek, and Roman past.

Every time I read a book or an article by one of those Altertumswissenschaftler, I feel humble, and realize how much knowledge and wisdom was lost when English became the language of scholarship. Much of what scholars like Finley and Momigliano have introduced to the study of ancient history in the 1970's and 1980's, was not new at all.