Making Pteruges (or at least trying to make Pteruges!)

[Magnus]

Ha but in all this why have you not thought about leather tents, leather shield covers.........Leather to a roman was an essential it seems, either tents or shield covers could be made with alternative materials, could they not?

Shield covers, helmet covers, tents etc. serve an entirely different purpose than pteryges. One keeps out the elements, the other nasty things like edged weapons. This is not in dispute. So whether or not something could have been made out of another material is irrelevant because it's physical properties make it impractical.

I bring to your attention a very credible reconstruction by the 8th Augusta of a subarmalis from a find based upon a believed shoulder section which was excavated (my apologies but at the moment i cant recall where it was found).

All this proves is that the shoulder was leather. It proves NOTHING about pteryges, since the subarmalis protected the wearer against chaffing, not edged weapons! What you're doing is reaching...for something that is simply not there.

OK this does not prove pteruges WERE leather but if it were the case that this reconstruction was indeed a true reconstruction, who in their right mind would attach non leather pteruges to a leather subarmalis.

Apparently the Romans did. Or someone who knows the defensive capabilities of layered linen which has been around for centuries at this point? It's not a difficult concept to grasp. You use what works, especially on the battlefield. Not what "looks pleasing to one's eye". That's inviting some pretty nasty lower body injuries from enemy weapons.

Secondly how many of us reconstructed centurios actually choose leather over material???? have a look!

Oh my god, you're not actually using that as an argument are you???? Next thing you'll be saying that hollywood armour is accurate!

Thirdly practically speaking if i were to put faith in my defences for real, i certainly would feel happier wearing leather pteruges than material ones, maybe psycological but there you go,any other comments,...fire away

I don't think you'd be happy if your balls got cut off because your pretty leather pteryges failled you since you chose looks over practicality lol.

You need to seriously read Travis Clark's website: http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/lorica/parts.htm

That will take you to the area on pteryges.

What i am getting at is that Most modern centurions choose leather over material. I personally find leather pleasing to the eye. I am sure in the real roman world personal choice accounted a lot for what type of material was used for whatever as well as money as it does nowadays

We know what you're saying, and most of the centurions out there are wrong. The problem is that has been the status quo for a long time, but believe me, it's changing to fabric. Also, as far as we know, personal choice only affected items such as belts, tunica and such. Possibly pugionnes. But nothing that had a direct impact on a soldiers equipment's effectiveness. Using your logic, a soldier might make armour out of silk because it looks pretty. Of course, he'd be dead in the first few minutes of combat, but hey, at least he looked good dying! :lol:

Leather whilst a good rain cover still needs oiling, so canvas shield covers and tents are still practicable once they are waterproofed.

Sorry bud, no evidence for this at all. And your line of thinking is what creates incorrect status quo's like the majority of "modern" centurions wearing leather pteryges. And just because a lot of people do something, doesn't make it right.

As we have no finds of the material items we have discussed then our reproductions are hypothetical to say the least.

Read Travis's site...the evidence that we do have indicates fabric, not leather!

we do not experience for real the conditions of real sharp pointy objects being used in combat, we can not therefore logically put forward one form of defence as better than another as the battle conditions for use dont exist.

This is exactly why we go by what the ancient Romans did actually did! Otherwise you're just playing Hollywood.

I am not sure why you feel you require modern justification of something that the Romans used. The evidence is there, the onus is on you not to ignore it because you don't agree or see a need for it as a practical matter. If you want to be for the most part as accurate as posible, then it behooves you to make your impression follow suit. Pteryges are highly visible, and should be made properly. It's not like we're talking about plywood vs strips of wood in a covered scutum.

Read Travis's site, you'll see that the long rectangular pteryges were fabric. And that is based on evidence.