Newstead Lorica -Fastener questions / experiences / problems

[Anonymous]

Over the last 4 years I have made 4 sets of the Corbridge Type lorica segmentata and all have performed without any problems.<br>
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I made a set of the Newstead lorica segmentata a few months ago based upon the latest info/drawings by Bishop and have been using it in "simulated combat" as it is a bit more rugged than the Corbridge variants, to get a feel for how they perform.<br>
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All in all it is strong and durable, but I have experienced 1 recurring problem, namely that the "male lateral fastener" or "key" that holds the 2 front breast plates together always "rotates" and unlocks itself. This does not pose a problem when wearing it as the Newstead is so "stiff" the 2 sides never separate.<br>
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I have come to believe that the " cast tie loop" would be a better solution as the "cast tie loops" on the girth plates, lock themselves together quite nicely.<br>
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Comments? <p></p><i></i>

[Matthew Amt]

Ave!<br>
<br>
Yeah, I had the same problem on the collar section that I've made, just handling it on display or for photographs. I was kind of hoping that it wouldn't happen as much while being worn! My turnkeys rotated back to vertical so quickly that I'm trying to figure out how to harness the energy generated...<br>
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I also used the turn-key system based on what Mike Bishop told me about the Eining breastplate. It has rectangular/octagonal brass plate with a round hole in it at just the right place. Seems to be a mounting for a turnkey, since it's not the usual simple slot that the tie loops have. But he also told me that the brass borders around the slots on the Newstead back- and breastplates show no wear, which I thought was kind of puzzling. Surely the constant movement and rubbing of a turnkey would leave some marks? I hate to think that they used some of those loop fittings that have a taller post but fixed them solidly in place, so that they function identically to the girdle plate loops but just look different. "Hey, let's use the same thing for these fasteners, only make the slot vertical and use a different loopy thing, yeah, that's it!" Must be the answer, since it makes no sense, eh?<br>
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So, did they happen to find any pieces among the new Carlisle stuff that would answer all our questions, or even question our answers???? Anybody know??? Just heard a rumor last night that the total was around 12 THOUSAND artifacts, and some of the armor plates were still shiny! Gimme, gimme!<br>
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Sigh...<br>
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Vale,<br>
<br>
Matthew/Quintus <p></p><i></i>

[mcbishop]

<em>So, did they happen to find any pieces among the new Carlisle stuff that would answer all our questions, or even question our answers????</em><br>
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No.<br>
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<em>Anybody know??? Just heard a rumor last night that the total was around 12 THOUSAND artifacts, and some of the armor plates were still shiny!</em><br>
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Sadly, we're not allowed to talk about the 'skunk works' Slough-type lorica seg (only works if you've seen <em>The Office</em>...) with state-of-the-art ablative plating and cloaking device... until the technology has been successfully reverse engineered and then sold to the next tyrant-in-waiting.<br>
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Mike Bishop <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Ave,<br>
<br>
The newstead is the only lorica I've really worn, and I have exactly the same problem with the front chest key. It rotates vertically, always, but never comes apart, so I don't really worry about it. I use a long pin in the back that locks the two together. If I really needed to lock the front, I guess I'd just put a nicely clamped clip.<br>
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Florentius<br>
<br>
www.florentius.com <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=jaredfleury>jaredfleury</A> at: 11/10/04 6:52 am<br></i>

[Berbescu]

Could someone explain in detail (or better yet show a picture) of how the tie loops, verticle fastener, and turn-key fasteners are attached to their respective plates? I'm having a hard time figuring it out from the material that I've found on the web (and neither Bishop's nor Russels books are at the library). Also, does someone have a picture of how the male fastener on the Newstead is attached to the upper girth hoop? (Preferably from a few different view points.)

Thanks.


Ioan

[Matthew Amt]

Ave!

Well, here's my little page, might have some of what you need:

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/newstlor.html

There's a link to the Legio VI Victrix page near the top, too, with a lot more details as well as completed Newstead loricas. Never got around to finishing mine, yet!

Vale,

Matthew

[Berbescu]

Ave!

Well, here's my little page, might have some of what you need:

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/newstlor.html

There's a link to the Legio VI Victrix page near the top, too, with a lot more details as well as completed Newstead loricas.

I've seen these pages. They were in fact very useful for me to understand how to construct a Newstead. Also the pattern that Mike Bishop put online was very useful. But the problem that I have run into is how to attach the tie-loops and the turn-key and the male fastener (hoops to chest plates) to their various plates. I also could not figure out, how the "pins" hook the girth hoops to the chest plates. Is it necessary to bend the pins down after they are connected to the chest plates? (I suspect it's not the case because continual bending would eventually break them.)

I guess that these things make a lot more sense after someone has seen someone elses completed reconstruction. If someone could give me some description or pictures, it would probably help a lot.


Ioan.

[Iosephus]

Ioan,

here are some photos of one of my friend's reconstruction:

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/ ... oulder.jpg
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/ ... /Front.jpg
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/ ... plates.jpg
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/ ... d/Back.jpg

The tie-loop construction were quite simple: they were cut out from 4-5 mm thick copper aloy sheet, then the loops were put through holes drilled on the girth hoops, finally hammer the "inside-end" of the loops like a rivet. For the turn-key we used washer in the inside of the collar plate, so the key can, well, turn.

The seggie on the pictures is more than one year old and never had any problem with the loops and hooks after extensive use . Well to be honest it didn't have any problem at all.
It is rock solid!

[Berbescu]

Thanks for the pictures. Do you have a close up of the inside of the armour showing the inside end of a loop and a turn-key?

The tie-loop construction were quite simple: they were cut out from 4-5 mm thick copper aloy sheet, then the loops were put through holes drilled on the girth hoops, finally hammer the "inside-end" of the loops like a rivet.

OK. Now I understand it. Thanks.

I guess that when you attached the loops, the outside end was placed against the anvil. Right? When you hammered the inside end, did you have to be careful not to deform the outside end? Or the inside end flattened much faster than the outside?

For the turn-key we used washer in the inside of the collar plate, so the key can, well, turn.

On Bishops diagram, there appears to be a small square (brass?) plate with a hole drilled in the centre and 4 more at the corners. I got the impression that this square piece was riveted to the inside of the plate and somehow retained the turn-key (which with an inside shaped like a T), but I wasn't sure if it would be strong enough and if the T shaped inside end would dig into (and eventually rip) the subarmalis (or the soldier's skin).

Let me see if i understood you correctly regarding the turn-key. On your reconstruction, you drilled a hole in the breast plate. Then you inserted the turn-key through the breast plate AND a washer. Then you hammered the inside end of the turn-key (over the washer) like a rivet so that it can't fall out. And there is enough room that you can easily rotate the key. Did i get that right?

When you hammered the inside end of the turn-key, did you have to first attach the second (overlapping) breast plate and something extra (for space) to make sure that you didn't hammer the inside end too much?


Thanks for the advice.


Ioan