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Making Pteruges (or at least trying to make Pteruges!)
#1
Ave!

I've been working on my Subarmalis for a while now, I have to go back and make some more adjustments so my subs aren't done yet but... I'm pretty much done with the Pteruges; I just have to make many, many more and attach them.

To make my Pteruges I used felt as the base, 100% cotton fringe purchased on EBay, and although it will cost me points in Recreation-Heaven :wink: , I used a sewing machine to wrap and sewed a layer of red and natural/pearl linen over each.

[Image: aIMG_7431.jpg]

I did my very best to follow a similar pattern as in the original sculpture examples. Although different than what we see in Hollywood, traces of paint on original statues show an alternating color pattern and the fringe matches one of the alternating colors... the fringe is not gold like in Hollywood movies.

The original paint example of Augustus here shows a color pattern of red and blue with blue fringe. I chose peril and red with peril fringe.
[Image: Augustus_color_restored_800.jpg]

The number of Pteruges seems to be a status symbol or symbol of class... Emperors always appear with at least three, sometimes four or more, layers of Pteruges while the gravestones of Centurions sometimes show only two layers with alternating fringe. However, as Travis Lee Clark points out repeatedly... there are no ancient examples where only one row of 5 Pteruges on each shoulder are seen; like in most Hollywood films. There are also no examples where there are only 10 going around the entire waist with huge gaps in between each of the Pteruges.

The way I made mine (although I'm sure there are other ways or better ways)
I found it far easier to leave the cotton fringe intact, slip each strip of felt under, sewed it all as one long piece, and then cut each of the Pteruges out.

[Image: aIMG_7413.jpg]
Vale!

Antonivs Marivs Congianocvs
aka_ANTH0NY_C0NGIAN0

My ancient coin collection:
[url:3lgwsbe7]http://www.congiano.com/MyCoins/index.htm[/url]
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#2
I started with a long strip of linen, cut it 2 1/2 inches wide and 17 inches long. Although, 2 1/2 inches is a little too narrow and it was difficult to sew that very short wrap... I changed to 3 inches for the rest of the linen wrap for Pteruges. The Pteruges are 1" thick when completed.

[Image: aIMG_7418.jpg]

[Image: aIMG_7425.jpg]

[Image: aIMG_7426.jpg]

There are more photos of how I made the Pteruges here:
http://www.congiano.com/Extras/Recreati ... eation.htm just click on Subarmalis & Pteruges
Vale!

Antonivs Marivs Congianocvs
aka_ANTH0NY_C0NGIAN0

My ancient coin collection:
[url:3lgwsbe7]http://www.congiano.com/MyCoins/index.htm[/url]
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#3
Very nice stuff frater!!!!!
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

LEG XI CPF vzw
>Q SER FEST
www.LEGIOXI.be
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#4
I really like ptergues, so I can't wait to see the end result! Been looking ahead to making my own in the future, so I'll be following this closely. But...1 inch thick?!
---AH Mervla, aka Joel Boynton
Legio XIIII, Gemina Martia Victrix
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#5
Nice! What color thread did you sew them with?
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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#6
Anthony,

First thanks for the tip on the other thread.

Looks good.

Mine look better after wetting and blocking them. They are a lot stiffer and look better.

Travis
Theodoros of Smyrna (Byzantine name)
aka Travis Lee Clark (21st C. American name)

Moderator, RAT

Rules for RAT:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules">http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules for posting

Oh! and the Toledo helmet .... oh hell, forget it. :? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" />:?
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#7
Joel Boynton asked:
Quote:But...1 inch thick?!

What I did was base the width on what Travis said over at his site:

Quote:Also, the pteruges on reconstructions are usually broad leather straps, 1.5-2 inches in average width. Now that is about the size they are on the statuary, but the statuary is not on a human scale, it's actually about 120% larger than actual size, meaning that the pteruges actually should be narrower.




Robert Vermaat asked:
Quote:What color thread did you sew them with?

I wanted to use a 100% cotton plain yellow but that was nowhere to be found, I found a yellow-gold (I stayed away from the metallic-gold) I think the thread is a cotton/synthetic blend.




Travis Lee Clark said:
Quote:Mine look better after wetting and blocking them. They are a lot stiffer and look better.

I was wondering about that however, many of the photos on your site show a real flowing fabric like material, sometimes they even look like then need to be ironed... what is the process of "blocking" them?
Vale!

Antonivs Marivs Congianocvs
aka_ANTH0NY_C0NGIAN0

My ancient coin collection:
[url:3lgwsbe7]http://www.congiano.com/MyCoins/index.htm[/url]
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#8
Ave,

I'm sewing the first bottom layer shoulder Pteruges onto my subs but, I'm noticing that they are flopping all over the place, twisting and turning, and do not have the "all together" appearance that I see in the statues. (There are 12 on the bottom layer, I'll have 22 to 24 with the second layer.)

I'm starting to wonder if the bottom layer of Pteruges were stitched together like a sleeve and the top rows of Pteruges were laid over?

I wonder if they were sewn somewhere in the middle? That might allow the bottoms to move but still keep them looking tight and keep them together.

Does anyone have that photo of the statue where the waist Pteruges are blowing up so you can see the underside? I'm wondering if they blew all the way up or if they only blew half way because maybe they were stitched together at the half way point?

Also, the shoulder Pteruges can't all be the same length when the subs are flat on my table because, when I tried them on... the top Pteruges on my shoulders are shorter than the Pteruges along my chest and the others behind on my back. I had to go back and trim them so when I have them on they are even at the fringe... I have photos and I'll show you what I'm talking about later on.

Just another adjustment I guess! :roll:

I'll let you know about the stitching as well.
Vale!

Antonivs Marivs Congianocvs
aka_ANTH0NY_C0NGIAN0

My ancient coin collection:
[url:3lgwsbe7]http://www.congiano.com/MyCoins/index.htm[/url]
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#9
I made the remark about thickness because I'd envisioned ptergues as thick as boards hanging around your waist when they were done. By thickness, I thought you meant depth, not width. My bad. But while we're on that subject, how deep/thick are they?
---AH Mervla, aka Joel Boynton
Legio XIIII, Gemina Martia Victrix
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#10
Quote:Also, the shoulder Pteruges can't all be the same length when the subs are flat on my table because, when I tried them on
Somewhere I saw a how-to on that, and they said the same thing. Said to draw a line around the bottom of the deltoid, and measure up to keep them more or less equal to the line, not constant measure.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#11
Quote:Joel Boynton asked:
Quote:But...1 inch thick?!

What I did was base the width on what Travis said over at his site:

Quote:Also, the pteruges on reconstructions are usually broad leather straps, 1.5-2 inches in average width. Now that is about the size they are on the statuary, but the statuary is not on a human scale, it's actually about 120% larger than actual size, meaning that the pteruges actually should be narrower.

That's width, not thickness. I think I've established that most people have far too few pteruges on their kits. Most re-enactors have about 6-8 across the front. Even on the most anemic statue the numbers are at least twenty across the front! Some have nearly 80! With at least two layers, sometimes more. The only way to get that count is to reduce the width, and when you factor in how much larger those statues are, that fits well with the evidence.

The best gauge for thickness is about half the thickness of your finger, about 1/4 inch. Double layered that makes them about as thick as a subarmalis


Quote:Travis Lee Clark said:
Quote:Mine look better after wetting and blocking them. They are a lot stiffer and look better.

I was wondering about that however, many of the photos on your site show a real flowing fabric like material, sometimes they even look like then need to be ironed... what is the process of "blocking" them?
[/quote]

I soak them, and I mean really soak them in water, let them drip the excess til damp, then I lay them on a flat waterproof surface, put a board on top of that and then stack heavy books on top of that. It really helped. They were very pliable before that, but they stiffened up nicely. Real wool felt would work even better. Basically it cause the fibers to stretch, then shrink as they dry. Dry them without block and they get all stiff and rumpled, but dry them while blocked and they only shrink along the weave. Surprisingly, my cotton/linen mix covers did not distort too much, but I suspect that's because I'm using synthetic felt which doesn't shrink up nearly as much.

I'll have to get a pic of my one attempt at shoulder pteruges and show it. I had to abandon it, no time or money to complete the rest.

Travis
Theodoros of Smyrna (Byzantine name)
aka Travis Lee Clark (21st C. American name)

Moderator, RAT

Rules for RAT:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules">http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?Rules for posting

Oh! and the Toledo helmet .... oh hell, forget it. :? <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_confused.gif" alt=":?" title="Confused" />:?
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#12
Quote:I'll have to get a pic of my one attempt at shoulder Pteruges and show it.

Ave Travis, thanks for the tips!

I'm really struggling with the shoulders quite a bit. If I was only doing one layer of five Pteruges on each... it would be no big deal but, trying to place layers, of around 20 on each shoulder, is not a straight forward as one might think.

The Pteruges are still splitting at the top of my shoulder and separating, flipping over and turning too.

I really think the ancients ran a stitch or something to keep them all in place so that they looked neat, uniform, and together… like on the statues.

Also, my original idea of having three layers of 12 isn’t going to work, there’s too many on the front at back sooooooooooooooooooooo… I think three layers of eight, 24 in total on each shoulder, hangs better and looks more like the statues.

I have a large assortment of photos, taken as I’m struggling along, once I get my subs complete and Pteruges to look like the statues… I’ll post them.
Vale!

Antonivs Marivs Congianocvs
aka_ANTH0NY_C0NGIAN0

My ancient coin collection:
[url:3lgwsbe7]http://www.congiano.com/MyCoins/index.htm[/url]
Reply
#13
Quote:The Pteruges are still splitting at the top of my shoulder and separating, flipping over and turning too.

I really think the ancients ran a stitch or something to keep them all in place so that they looked neat, uniform, and together… like on the statues.

Indeed! I don't know about those early ones, but some of our Late Roman statues show almost elbow-length pteruges that cling to the arm! I'm going to use a short sleeve.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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#14
I made my tribune's subarmalis last year, and initially had these same problems. After fooling around with scraps for a bit, I found the following method to work best (i.e., look most like the monuments). In this case, I made leather pteruges, trimmed in wire bullion fringe.

I cut a fan-shaped pattern in which I then cut into seperate pteruges, each one narrowing slightly towards the top. I left the top intact. The size of each pteruge? About one inch or so, but basically what I thought looked about right on my arm, keeping in mind that all arms are different, so one shouldn't get too hung up on the width/length... so long as it looks close to what's seen on the monuments. I ended up with about 17 pteruges, but again, this will change depending on the amount of arm that needs to be covered. I also decided not to add any at the armpit, for comfort's sake.

I then cut pie-shapes out across the top, and sewed them together with awl thread, which, when done, formed a sort of bowl shape into which the shoulder would go. I kept this sewn area shallow enough that it would be covered by the shoulder trim of my subarmalis.

I then cut a second pattern, identical to the first, minus one pteruge. I initially tried gluing this to the back of the first fan in an overlapping manner, but this created a mass of leather that would not drape properly. So I cut apart the individual pteruges of the second fan, and glued them in seprately to fill the gaps of the first fan. Added a few decorative rivets, and sewed the mess to the inside of my sub shoulder seam. The result was quite comfortable, drapes like the monuments, and has IMO the right amount of "fullness". This method would, I think, work well with your felt/linen pteruges as well. Hope this helps,

Gil Whitley / Tribune Valerius, Leg X Fret So Cal


[Image: sleevepteruges2.jpg]
[Image: sleevepteruges3.jpg]
[Image: sleevepteruges5.jpg]
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#15
I am intrigued with the use of felt in pteruges, however, it should probably be naturally pressed felt as opposed to modern felt.
"In war as in loving, you must always keep shoving." George S. Patton, Jr.
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