Help needed with a roman cloak or "sagum"....

[M. Demetrius]

Thanks for the answer, Magnus. I have a couple of those penannulars, and they work just fine, and I'm a big believer in function first. That's not what usually shows up on statues and mosaics.

I usually see a disk of some kind, were they like the disk brooches we use today?

I guess any fibula that's big enough to hold all that cloth would be generally ok?

[Magnus]

I would think so. Given the tons of different styles and sizes of brooches I'd say it was up to the individual.

[John M McDermott]

Most of the ones depicted don't appear to be sagums, but another, stylized Roman garment. The better depictions of sagums and how Roman soldiers wore them can be seen on grave steles.

[Graham Sumner]

Hi folks

Yes you can see red and blue cloaks, possible an olive green one too amongst the funeral portraits found in Egypt. A few white cloaks are also visible or mentioned in other sources which are covered in Roman Military Clothing 1-3. The most popular colour, especially in mosaics is a yellow brown.

It has been suggested that the standard bearer on the Mainz column base is wearing a sagum cloak with a tablet woven border. He looks to me like he could be wearing a long sleeved tunic too, which would suggest evidence of soldiers adopting local clothing. However such is the nature of things the marks around the wrist could also be interpreted as armilla.

The cloak worn by Domitian in the picture above is the Paludamentum. We only have sculptural evidence for these. It has again been suggested that these were shaped like the Sagum but with the corners chopped off. (I guess in the weaving not physically cut off!) In some cases the paludamentum is not brooched at all, it simply hangs by its own weight on the right shoulder, for example as shown on the tombstone of Facilis the centurion from Colchester. Pliny says the Paludamentum of senior officers were dyed red but we also hear of Purple and white versions, while Crassus wore a black cloak on the eve of Carrhae.

Graham.

[John M McDermott]

He looks to me like he could be wearing a long sleeved tunic too, which would suggest evidence of soldiers adopting local clothing. However such is the nature of things the marks around the wrist could also be interpreted as armilla.

Is this possibly tablet weaving too, as in the Thorsberg tunic?

[Graham Sumner]

John wrote:

Is this possibly tablet weaving too, as in the Thorsberg tunic?

Yes, you could interpret it that way, equally as I said earlier the more common explanation for what you see would be the bracelet like military awards. (see page 3 of Roman Military Clothing 2)

There are textile scholars who say that the Thorsberg tunic belonged to a Roman soldier anyway, an interpretation equally controversial.
Graham.

[M. Demetrius]

Are there any links or pictures around here of the sort of clasp used for the shoulder fastening?

[Virilis]

One more question; how thick should the wool of the sagum be? I mean the examples I looked at my local vendor looked all quite thin...

[Hugh Fuller]

Mine is quite heavy and, if it is to do what it was intended to do, it should be pretty heavy. You might wish to contact the folks at La Wren's Nest, one of the supplers who have a forum here, about their saga.

[Virilis]

Thanks, Hugh!

[Graham Sumner]

Mine is quite heavy and, if it is to do what it was intended to do, it should be pretty heavy.

That depends on what you are intending it to do. Some Roman cloaks and tunics too can be made from very fine wool which is why they drape so well on the tombstones. Remember it was also a fashion to wear cloaks indoors too. What this means is that the well equipped soldier would have more cloaks..... and tunics for all occasions.
Graham.

[Virilis]

That depends on what you are intending it to do. Some Roman cloaks and tunics too can be made from very fine wool which is why they drape so well on the tombstones. Remember it was also a fashion to wear cloaks indoors too. What this means is that the well equipped soldier would have more cloaks..... and tunics for all occasions.
Graham.

Perhaps I will do a "light" cloak first then just to show off (like we late romans tend to do :wink: ...)

[Hugh Fuller]

Good point, Graham. It is just that I seem to wind up using my heavy sagum often enough to warrant it, although I do have a lighter weight cloak for warmer weather. It can get pretty warm in Virginia and Maryland in the summer.

[John M McDermott]

That depends on what you are intending it to do. Some Roman cloaks and tunics too can be made from very fine wool which is why they drape so well on the tombstones. Remember it was also a fashion to wear cloaks indoors too. What this means is that the well equipped soldier would have more cloaks..... and tunics for all occasions.
Graham.

Has any re-enactor succeeded in achieving this with a sagum?

[Robert Vermaat]

Has any re-enactor succeeded in achieving this with a sagum?

Don't know. I have 2 sagums, both probably too small (3m x c. 1.5m) and definately not from heavy wool.