Protection - Which Lorica was best?

[geala]

But the question about the protection performance is easier, isn't it? It could be testet at least.

I'm a bit uncomfortable with the opinions that padded mail is better than plate, even mild steel/iron plate. Contradicts the medieval experiences. Plate came in wider use already in the 13th c. AD. As Sean Manning wrote it was normally worn in addition to mail. Only from the beginning of the 15th c. AD the mail shirts beneath the plate cuirass were discharged when the plate became much more like hard steel (I think never in history heavier clad warriors existed than in the 14th c. AD).

At the battle of Benevent 1266 AD the French knights had big problems with the German knights who wore plate armour (cloth covered laminated cuirasses probably) over their mail shirts. Only after the French used the armpits, only protected by mail, as targets they could overhelm the Germans (number could have played a role too). Nice anecdote, but perhaps a hint that even plate made from soft iron had it's merits and padded mail alone was not the best.

[Dan Howard]

I have certainly never said that mail and its associated padding could resist a weapon more effectively than segmented plate. But I don't think the difference was all that great. The question wasn't about this however. There are many factors that one should consider when determining which was "better". This question has been asked and answered on many previous threads. Mail IMO is superior when all the relevant factors are taken into account. That's why it saw continuous use for the best part of two thousand years in virtually every metal using culture on the planet (the only real exception is China)

[Taoye]

and let's not forget the difference between the quality of iron in Roman times and the iron / steel a thousand years later in the medieval period.

[Tarbicus]

and let's not forget the difference between the quality of iron in Roman times and the iron / steel a thousand years later in the medieval period.

Debatable, that one. There is some evidence of Roman plate being as advanced, or nearly as.

[Sardaukar]

I seem also to recall reading sources mention that raising and equipping full-strength legion in Caesar's time did cost 20 million sestertii. If we use estimation of value of denarius in modern currency from Wiki (:oops: ) (20$ to 41$ in 2004 value), legion would cost minimum 100 million $...

And running it another 20 million $ per year... Puts things nicely in scale.

No wonder Augustus didn't have more legions that he had... During time of Actium there were about 60 legions around...and that sucked even Roman Empire dry in monetary sense.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Mind you, if he had hung on to a few more than he did, perhaps he could have accomplished more.. :roll:

[Sardaukar]

Mind you, if he had hung on to a few more than he did, perhaps he could have accomplished more.. :roll:

I think he was bit stingy :lol:

At least compared to Marcus Antonius or his grand-uncle (Caesar). If I recall correctly, Antonius (I hate when latin names are modified to suit english..but then..I'm as guilty.. :oops: ) had debts of 40+ million sestertii before age 30..quite an accomplishment. Ditto with Caesar before Gaul, just don't remember the amount, Crassus had to come to rescue few times.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Yes...sadly, it all went down hill after Caesar! :roll:

[AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs]

I was under the impression Pteryges were just for show, not actual armoured protection?

Ave,

I totally agree that Pteruges, like we see in Hollywood movies (4 flat strips of leather hanging from the shoulder or 10 flat strips going around the entire waist, separated by wide gaps)… yup, decoration only.

But, if you look at the statuary evidence, Pteruges were never, ever, ever seen like that.

Pteruges were most likely made from felt, covered in linen, attached together without gaps in between, layered with at least three rows, and each of the Pteruges was off set to the one underneath.

That layering would make them good protection against puncture wounds and slashing wounds.

Have you ever tired to stab through three or four layers of felt and linen? Multiple layers of fabric are near impossible to get through.

If done correctly, as we see in the ancient sculpture… they are good protection at least, would still allow for movement, and still be decorative at the same time.

If done like we see in Hollywood… no way.

Look at the layers and the thickness


Again, look at how many Pteruges there are


Hollywood... or in this case... HBO... Pathetic isn’t it??? Also, the shoulder doublers are WAY too wide


BTW: I really LOVED HBO's Rome, AWESOME show... it was just the little things, the the armor that was off... some of the history too but, GREAT SHOW!!!

[Sardaukar]

Mind you, if he had hung on to a few more than he did, perhaps he could have accomplished more.. :roll:

Yep. At least Octavianus/Augustus had more sense towards his enemies... He sure was not in pardoning mood..and who can blame him after what happened to Caesar.

Tp pteryges...I agree that Hollywoode depiction of pteryges is way off compared to statues, for example.