Smoking Romans...

[Mark Headlee]

Let me preface this before I start...

I know the HBO series Rome takes several "liberties" when interpreting Roman culture and society, but in an episode in season two, Octavia was smoking "hemp" from the territories and states it was better than what could be found in Rome.

NOW...I'm not, not, (let me repeat) not advocating smoking or drug use, but was this based on any fact or was it just Hollywood drama.

Does anyone have any information on what was or if it was smoked in Roman times. I know tobacco is n recent "invention" from the New World, but did the Romans have any type of recreational smoking material.

[Tarbicus]

http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=11740

http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=3459

The Egyptians also liked to binge drink on beer :wink:

[marsvigilia]

If a soldier used recreational drugs or (alcohol for that matter) and subsequently fell asleep on guard duty, he would subsequently be beaten to death by his chums as a lesson to not fall asleep on guard duty.

A lesson that would perhaps not profit the dead man so much as one might hope.

I imagine that the Romans were rather practical in their use of disincentives to deter poor performance regardless of the basis for that poor performance.

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

marsvigilia\\n[quote]If a soldier used recreational drugs or (alcohol for that matter) and subsequently fell asleep on guard duty, he would subsequently be beaten to death by his chums as a lesson to not fall asleep on guard duty.

Still doesn't mean it didn't happen, though. I wonder in all of history how many guys drank wine and still stood guard or fought battles. Since time immemorial people have used whatever was available to ease the "human condition". If something new or exotic came around you can bet somebody was gonna try it.
Does anyone have the dates of opium in the far east?Pretty old as I recall.

[Hugh Fuller]

The US government encouraged the planting of hemp during World War I as a defense product for the production of rope for the US Navy. It was not until rather later that they became concerned about marijuana as the "killer drug." My brother even had a book from 1913, IIRC, that recommended having your teen-aged son smoke pot as a way to break his habit of "abusing himself."

Given the above, I rather doubt that the Romans cared much about the sale and use of it. I would, however, believe that they would be severe on those who allowed the use of it to affect the performance of their duties as soldiers, just as they were severe about the use of alcohol affecting said duties.

[Tarbicus]

just as they were severe about the use of alcohol affecting said duties.

By that do you mean when on guard duty, or building a bridge, etc? Alcohol has been a common 'soother of nerves' before battle for centuries (Dutch courage, rum, etc). I'd be interested to see anything published that demonstrates booze or even drugs were strictly prohibited in the Roman ranks before battle, especially if before battle it could make them a gang of 'mentalists who knew no fear' :wink: . If there's no clear evidence, the subject's surely an open one. Given the behaviour of Roman soldiers in battle let's just say I wouldn't be surprised at all if it transpired that booze played some part, even if only minor.

[Hugh Fuller]

I am thinking specifically of guard duty and of other such fuctions, although I would expect that a trooper unable to join in his unit in battle as a result of drink could expect a rather severe punishment. I believe that I had said that the problem was not one of banning them but of saying that they should not be allowed to render you incapable of doing whatever it was that you were ordered to do.

[A_Volpe]

And there was the scene in Season 1 where Cleo in her utterly ridiculous and totally useless hundred-man-mobile-condo, snorting crack or some such.

[egfroth]

Well, Belisarius in the 6th century imposed the death penalty for a soldier being drunk on duty - but the impression I get is that this was regarded as unusual and worthy of comment.

[M. Demetrius]

ridiculous and totally useless hundred-man-mobile-condo

What I wondered about that was, "How much water would that take per day?" I think she was supposed to be smoking opium, though, not crack. Either way, I venture that the withdrawal and detox would have taken more than just an afternoon.

[Celtic505]

trust me, my withdrawals lasted at LEAST 3 days, but I wouldn't doubt people smoking opiates back than, didn't Marcus Aurelius in his meditations write that everybody should try opium or something along those lines? But lets hope his stoic philosophy stressed to not depend on it. But I've also heard of different kinds of hallucinogens native to Europe that are now extinct that were used in antiquity and the middle ages by "witches" or shamans, pagan priests, etc. I am sure this would give an very odd experience during battle, but perhaps like the viking berserkers or aztecs it could be used to psyche oneself up for battle and to prepare in case of entering the afterlife. I do remember reading a book that mentioned an ancient Greek writer claiming to hear about a secret meeting in a temple during certain nights, where a group of people would take some kind of plant or mushroom (?) and would be able to be in contact with the gods or something along those lines. He mentioned how everybody who had ever entered this ceremony came out forever changed and viewed the world very differently afterwards.

[Aetius Helvius Merula]

If anyone would would have a line on such things it would be the practicioners of the Bacchic/Dionysian Rites, the people whom your ancient writer seems to be talking about. I know they were very much into the experience of ecstatic visions and trances.

[Celtic505]

thats exactly what he was referring to, I can't remember who said it. It was for a paper I had in school about intoxicants throughout history, somebody should hopefully be familiar with it or/and the marcus Aurelius quote, because I have seen that one many times. I also remember reading in the newpaper a while ago about a roman trading ship discovered in the mediterranean with a insanely large amount of hemp seeds. Does this sound familiar to anybody?

[Tarbicus]

There's even a six page paper at JSTOR about the opium addiction of Marcus Aurelius:

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0022-5037(196101%2F03 )22%3A1%3C97%3ATOAOMA%3E2.0.CO%3B2-%23
copy and paste the entire link
The Opium Addiction of Marcus Aurelius
Thomas W. Africa
Journal of the History of Ideas, Vol. 22, No. 1 (Jan. - Mar., 1961), pp. 97-102

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

While reading the novel "Augustus" by Anthony Everett I found reference to "absinthium" being awarded the winner of the chariot race during the Latin Festival. While not smoking, it still shows a desire to be seriously wasted.