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Roman wire...
#1
Recently I had a conversation with a fellow armourer and we got on the discussion of wire. Initially he was of the opinion as I was that Roman wire was drawn in some fashion, but he had been shown evidence that Roman wire was made by slitting and then twisting. There was a paper written about this as well. Does anyone here know about this paper, or have you heard of this method? Apparently this was the method used for all jewelry made from gold and it was indicated that all other wire was made this way as well.
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#2
As far as I know drawplate-wire making was the standard in the ancient world.(heck it's still used in some parts of the world) It was simple enough, if a bit time consuming and physically demanding, but uncomplicated and basically foolproof.
I haven't read about this cutting technique but I'd be very interested in reading it if anyone can post a link or a book title.
Titus Petronicus Graccus
Cohors I Vindelicorvm

Pedro Bedard
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#3
I agree. This article seems to imply that no example of Roman wire shows any evidence of drawing at all. I find this very hard to believe.
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#4
Quote:I agree. This article seems to imply that no example of Roman wire shows any evidence of drawing at all. I find this very hard to believe.

Agreed. It's the non-drawn wire that should get the most attention since it would be out of place. And yet this is the first I've heard of it and I've been armoring since the late '80's.
But I am very much willing to read the article once found.
Titus Petronicus Graccus
Cohors I Vindelicorvm

Pedro Bedard
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#5
I don't know about iron wire for armor, but yes, twisted strips or rolled barstock is the status quo for fine metals in Roman jewelery. In fact this is a method often used for identifying forgeries. Wire pulled through a draw plate has straight grooves when examined with a microscope. Ancient wire has distinctly spiraling grooves.

"The manufacture of wire in antiquity has been extensively studied, and it now seems virtually certain that drawn wire was not made within the period we are concerned with here but was first developed in the West around the eighth century AD." - Catherine Johns, The Jewellery of Roman Britain.

Catherine was head curator for Roman/Anglo Saxon displays at the British Museum up until 2003 or so. But again, she's approaching the subject from a jewelers perspective. No clue if her statement is meant to include ferrous metals as well.
Franklin Slaton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Your mother wears caligae!
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#6
There are at least two surviving draw plates found in a Roman context. One at Vindolanda and the other at Altena near Dusseldorf.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#7
Quote:"The manufacture of wire in antiquity has been extensively studied, and it now seems virtually certain that drawn wire was not made within the period we are concerned with here but was first developed in the West around the eighth century AD." - Catherine Johns, The Jewellery of Roman Britain.
There are surviving examples of non-ferrous Persian wire dating back to 5th-6th centuries BC. Thomsen and Thomsen reckon that the only way that it could have been produced is by wire drawing.
Thomsen, E.G. and Thomsen, H.H. "Drawing solid wires through soft dies in Antiquity." Transactions of the ASME. Journal of Engineering for Industry Paper No. 75-WA/Prod-6. 1976. pp.1-5.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#8
What exactly is wire drawing? And what is the twisting method?
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
Du Courage Viens La Verité

Legion: TBD
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#9
Wire drawing is taking solid barstock and forcibly pulling it through successively smaller diameter holes until you reach the desired thickness (or thinness, as it were).

The twisting method involves first beating the metal into very thin sheets, then cutting that sheet into very thin strips, then twisting those strips into tiny tubes (like a paper straw), and then rolling those tubes into solid wire.

Or the rolling method, which is exactly what it sounds like: rolling barstock between two heavy objects to thin it out. Imagine working with modeling clay when you were a kid, rolling out a "snake" or "rope" between your two hands. Same principle.
Franklin Slaton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Your mother wears caligae!
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#10
Quote:There are at least two surviving draw plates found in a Roman context. One at Vindolanda and the other at Altena near Dusseldorf.

Exactly so.
And both show evidence of non-ferrous metals and ferrous metals having passed through them.
The technique of rolling metal would work fine for gold and silver, but brass would have to be annealed often as would iron to prevent splintering and cracks.
Doesn't sound like a very efficient way to make wire to me. Nor would it to someone who makes mail for a living.
Titus Petronicus Graccus
Cohors I Vindelicorvm

Pedro Bedard
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#11
Ah...very intresting!
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
Du Courage Viens La Verité

Legion: TBD
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#12
Pulling wire is spaghetti method in fact?
Some questions raised in my head, although I am still waking up. What do we know about iron wires. I can recall none Sad .
If the pulling method was used then sheet of metal had to be in semi liquid (melting) condition in order to pass through the whole?
Is it possible that microscopic analysis of wire cross sections would show application of rolling method?

edit:Obviously woke up early, forgot the difference between push and pull looooool.
Stefan Pop-Lazic
by a stuff demand, and personal hesitation
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#13
I find it very hard to believe that no Roman wire was drawn as supposedly was mentioned in this article. This statement is simply much too generalizing; there are just too many factors at hand.

The material used for making the wire (gold, silver, bronze, copper, or iron) matters quite a lot. There seem to be different earliest estimated dates for different materials (although scholars do not agree upon these as well). Iron is supposed to be a lot harder to draw than gold or silver. Also the purpose of the wire is of importance (was it wire for making jewelry, for making mail, or for another purpose?).

I guess, but this is just speculating, if such an article was indeed written, it probably did not state that no wire at all was drawn. It would most likely have said that wire of a certain material with a certain purpose was not drawn, but made in another fashion. Again, I am just speculating.

As this discussion arose when you were speaking with a fellow armourer, your mutual interest probably lies in the drawing of wire with the purpose of making mail. You are familiar with the writings of E. Martin Burgess and the polemic discussion with Cyrill Stanley Smith in 1960 on the methods of making mail (see below for references). It is Burgess in his reply to Smith that states the following:

[quote]We still do not know when wire drawing started, but I would certainly not now say that the “existence of mail in any civilization proves the use of wire drawingâ€
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#14
The person I spoke to was referencing the article quoted above about jewelry. We will need to see the article in question to be sure of what exactly was said. Wire for Roman mail was most certainly drawn. I have seen samples with drawplate grooves still in them that are quite visible to the naked eye.
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#15
Quote:The person I spoke to was referencing the article quoted above about jewelry.

Might it be this article?

Caroll, Diane Lee
1970 Drawn Wire and the Identification of Forgeries in Ancient Jewelry. American Journal of Archaeology. Vol. 74, No. 4.
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