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Rome without the Praetorian Guard
#31
Theodosius: My apologies for the belated reply as I was presenting a paper on the creation of the Urban cohorts at an epigraphy conference in Oxford and only got back into London yesterday. I can add little to what Alexander K says except that it is my own opinion and belief (based on the text in Herodian, cf. Herodian 1.12) that the Urban cohorts were involved in that struggle against Cleander's forces and it is important to note that the other side seems to have had no infantry and it is presumed that even if these were Praetorians, they were just cavalry and the terminology would definitely suggest the Equites Singulares Augusti (Basileioi hippeis is the term used by Herodian to describe the cavalry). If there were Praetorian cavalry then one would still have to wonder where the rest of the Praetorians were but, and my memory is hazy on this, but I seem to remember the other two Praetorian prefects abstaining from action and not allowing their men to do anything.

On balance, I would agree with Alexander K and suggest that, certainly from what I've seen, the Urban cohorts joined the local citizenry in fighting off the equites singulares and, possibly, the Praetorian cavalry, and this is generally the tack taken by me in my chapter on the Urban cohorts of this period.

I do not suggest that they couldn't fight and stand off the Praetorians or, at least, make the Praetorians think twice. The accession of Claudius is interesting since the tension is palpable while the Urban cohorts stand with the Senate until, for some reason (I argue it is the influence of their Urban prefect) they defect to the Claudian cause. That is probably something for another post, though. Smile They also, as Dio tells us in Dio 78.4, stood against Caracalla's Praetorians who were sent to kill the former Urban prefect of his father, Fabius Cilo. Cilo escaped his would-be murderers and they chased him into the street where the local citizenry prevented the Praetorians from finishing the deed and the Urban cohorts, some of them at least, showed up to protect their former commander. Caracalla had to back down by executing these 'rogue' Praetorians.

I had to simply my argument for the Urban cohorts and Maxentius but it would also, I think, have been a poor decision for the Urban cohorts to have supported anyone but Maxentius at the time. Certainly, I don't think they had much choice considering how outnumbered they would have been (considering how many men were available to Maxentius in the long run). I would argue that the Urban cohorts and the Praetorians could potentially fight only if there was a reasonable chance of something going on that they could influence. In the case of Maxentius, I don't believe that it would have made political nor practical sense for them to fight the Praetorians. Sorry, I should have made that a bit more clear. Smile

Also, I think it was Quintius Lucius Cato who commented that the men of the Urban cohorts were considered 'unworthy' for the legions but I must have left his name out at the time I wrote the original post. I didn't mean to imply that you had said that.

Apologies for the long-windedness but I hope this is useful, as always. Please let me know if you have more questions or comments as, like any researcher, I am happy to talk about my work. Smile
Praefectus Urbi
(Michael Ng)
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#32
Alexandr, Michael :

You seem to be right about the "soldiers" belonging to the Urban cohorts. Author Anthony R. Birley thinks as much since the riot started in the Circus and that it was the duty of the City [Urban] Prefect to maintain order with his 3 cohorts ["Septimius Severus : The African Emperor", pg. 79].

For some reason there's a claim floating around the web that Pertinax sent some Vigiles to oppose Cleander's Praetorians. I don't know the origin of this claim but I originally thought it must have been Herodian or Dio and that the English translations changed "Vigiles" to "soldiers" to avoid confusion among lay readers. The claim about Pertinax's role in the whole affair though still eludes me. He was City Prefect at the time but did the Praefectus Urbi have command over the Vigiles ? I thought they had their own prefect :?

At any rate, the Singulares Equites Augusti were supposedly the elite of the elite receiving the highest pay [cavalymen always received more than infantry]. And they were beaten back by troops of a lower status. This episode just seemed worth mentioning since we moderns sometimes tend to think the Praetorians had an iron grip on the city of Rome.

Quote:Theodosius: My apologies for the belated reply as I was presenting a paper on the creation of the Urban cohorts at an epigraphy conference in Oxford and only got back into London yesterday.
Belated ? Only 9 hours elapsed. By RAT standards that's pretty quick :wink: I wonder if I can get a transcript of the conference. Smile

Quote:I seem to remember the other two Praetorian prefects abstaining from action and not allowing their men to do anything.
Yes, I read that too. As I said, some source [modern?] also lays this charge against Pertinax. But the primary sources do confirm your memory.
Quote:The accession of Claudius is interesting since the tension is palpable while the Urban cohorts stand with the Senate until, for some reason (I argue it is the influence of their Urban prefect) they defect to the Claudian cause. That is probably something for another post, though.
I think assessing the strength and influence of the Urban Cohorts is pertinent to the thread since they may have survived in some form after Milvian Bridge.

Quote:They also, as Dio tells us in Dio 78.4, stood against Caracalla's Praetorians who were sent to kill the former Urban prefect of his father, Fabius Cilo. Cilo escaped his would-be murderers and they chased him into the street where the local citizenry prevented the Praetorians from finishing the deed and the Urban cohorts, some of them at least, showed up to protect their former commander.
Very interesting. This incident reinforces my / our belief that the Praetorians were only numerically superior to their Urban counterparts.

Author Dr. Boris Rankov theorizes that during the reign of Tiberius that 3 Praetorian cohorts were redesignated as Urban cohorts. According to an inscription the Praetorians seem to have had 12 cohorts for a brief period during Augustus' last years. Around the same time the Urban cohorts were also created. But Tacitus states that in 23 AD the Praetorian cohorts were numbered at 9. Since the Urban cohorts were numbered consecutively after the Praetotian cohorts Rankov thinks the former were originally Praetorian cohorts simply redesignated. If true, then this action would seem to imply parity in terms of martial quality between Praetorian and Urban cohorts.

Quote:Also, I think it was Quintius Lucius Cato who commented that the men of the Urban cohorts were considered 'unworthy' for the legions but I must have left his name out at the time I wrote the original post. I didn't mean to imply that you had said that.
No worries. I remember reading about that too.
Quote:Apologies for the long-windedness but I hope this is useful, as always.
Not at all ! RATers tend to be too pithy in their posts for my liking (which tends to hamper the learning experience for the rest of us laymen.) :wink:

Quote:Please let me know if you have more questions or comments as, like any researcher, I am happy to talk about my work.
Thank you, Michael. I will do that. Big Grin

~Theo
Jaime
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#33
Hi,
Quote:Author Dr. Boris Rankov theorizes that during the reign of Tiberius that 3 Praetorian cohorts were redesignated as Urban cohorts. According to an inscription the Praetorians seem to have had 12 cohorts for a brief period during Augustus' last years. Around the same time the Urban cohorts were also created. But Tacitus states that in 23 AD the Praetorian cohorts were numbered at 9. Since the Urban cohorts were numbered consecutively after the Praetotian cohorts Rankov thinks the former were originally Praetorian cohorts simply redesignated. If true, then this action would seem to imply parity in terms of martial quality between Praetorian and Urban cohorts.
Yes, this is a little enigma. It's an inscription found in Lecce dei Marsi:

Belegstelle: AE 1978, 00286 = AE 1996, 00513
Provinz: Samnium / Regio IV Ort: Lecce ne' Marsi
A(ulo) Virgio L(uci) f(ilio) Marso / prim(o) pil(o) leg(ionis) III Gallicae / iterum praef(ecto) castr(orum) Aegy(pti) / praef(ecto) fabr(um) tr(ibuno) mil(itum) in praet(orio) / divi Aug(usti) et Ti(beri) Caesaris Aug(usti) / cohort(ium) XI et IIII praetoriar(um) / IIIIvir(o) quinq(uennali) delato hon/ore ab dec(urionibus) et popul(o) in col(onia) Troad(ensium) / Aug(usta) et Marru(v)io testamento / dedit vicalibus Anninis imagin(es) / Caesarum argentias(!) quinque / et sestertia X milia / vicales Annini{s} honor(is) / causa

"To Aulus Virgius ... military tribune of XI. and IIII. praetorian cohorts in the praetorium of deified Augustus and of Tiberius ..." (loose translation of the significant part)


Some discussion about the inscription can be found in Keppie, L.: The Praetorian Guard before Sejanus, Athenaeum 84, 1996, 101-124. The authors opinion that "Virgius served in a cohors XI which we can recognise as the later cohors XI Urbana, and then in a cohors IIII praetoria" is similarly enigmatic for me - probably because I'm not familiar with the history of Urban cohorts... Perhaps he too thinks that there were initially 12 praetorian cohorts and three of them were then redesignated to be Urban cohorts...? Michael, could you, please, perhaps provide some information about the creation of Urban cohorts (when, how etc.), which would help us in this case?

Greetings
Alexandr
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#34
To pick up from Alexandr K's post about A. Virgus Marsus, his inscription was actually the centre of the argument I was making about the creation of the Urban cohorts during my paper (which I presented last Monday). I believe another RAT person was at my talk (someone doing a DPhil at Oxford) and he might have made a few notes about my presentation but I will repeat the gist of it here since it is relevant to what we're talking about.

It is precisely his enigmatic career which has allowed me to suggest that the history of the Urban cohorts are as E. Echols, L. Keppie, and B. Rankov (and other scholars previously) have suggested. That they were formerly Praetorian cohorts who had then been re-designated as 'Urban' is interesting and that the Urban cohorts were numbered consecutively with the Praetorian cohorts. Marsus' inscription can be certainly dated to Tiberian date owing to the formula of the inscription and the fact that Augustus has already been deified. It is Marsus' inscription which has allowed me to suggest a late Augustan date for the creation of the Urban cohorts. The major questions have been 'when' and 'why', though 'where from' is still debated but it seems likely that the Urban cohorts were ex-Praetorians.

The history of the cohorts is a bit hazy and while there are some arguments for the early creation of the Urban cohorts, this seems to me unlikely. The earliest that we hear about anything that might resemble the Urban cohorts is in Suetonius' biography of Augustus (Augustus 101, if memory serves) and it's part of the will drafted in AD 13, read out in AD 14, and 500 sesterces are given to the Urban cohorts with 1000 to the Praetorians and 300 to the legionaries. The original editor of the inscription, Cesare Letta, published it in 1978 in 'Letta, C. (1978). “Le Imagines Caesarum di un Prafectus Castrorum Aegypti e l'XI Coorte Pretoria.â€
Praefectus Urbi
(Michael Ng)
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#35
The difference between the Praetorians and Urban Cohorts is almost starting to sound like the difference between the Cardinal's men and the King's Musketeers Smile
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#36
Tarbicus, I have to admit that the history of the two units is interesting since they are so intertwined and, as I have said, many men in both units were friends or, in some cases, siblings. You can almost feel sorry for the Urban cohorts, 'You're no longer Praetorians, chaps. Here, you get half the pay now.' Smile
Praefectus Urbi
(Michael Ng)
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#37
Quote:Tarbicus, I have to admit that the history of the two units is interesting since they are so intertwined and, as I have said, many men in both units were friends or, in some cases, siblings. You can almost feel sorry for the Urban cohorts, 'You're no longer Praetorians, chaps. Here, you get half the pay now.' Smile
Ah, but what they lost in direct pay may have been made up for in other ways by the people within the city? There does seem to be a bond (as tenuous as it may have been), and we know Romans courted favours.
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#38
Very interesting. Thank you Michael.
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