Dark ages Armies

[JP Vieira]

Hello
Ioannis, you do not have some of those texts as pdf, or in some website? :wink:
Best regards
JP Vieira

[hoplite14gr]

Early Dark age armies could have rectangualr shileds:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image ... n_6029.jpg

Kind regards

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Doesn't that remind you of that shield from Cyprus...rectangular drom the one side and V shaped from the other.And also with a boss.I just don't remember how old exactly that shield was.
Khaire
Giannis

[Matthew Amt]

Actually, if the chronology gets fixed, most of the "Dark Age" goes away. Chop all the dates before about 800 or 900 by at least 250 years, and you'll see that the end of the Bronze Age and the fall of Troy and Mycenae really happened around 950 or 900. All the dates are a mess, thanks to the screwed-up Egyptian King List.

I ran across a pair of articles not long ago that made a fascinating analysis of late Bronze Age/Early Iron Age warfare. The infantry formations described in Homer aren't necessarily nice phalanxes. They could be clumps of men that open up to charge or retreat, with chariots zipping here and there through the mess. Sorry, I don't seem to have an electronic version of those articles!

Khairete,

Matthew

[Dan Howard]

Van Wees has done some articles with detailed analyses of infantry tactics in the Iliad. I recently bought his book but haven't read it yet.

As Matt said, if the chronology is fixed there will be no such thing as the "Dark Ages".

[JP Vieira]

Hello
A representation of the 900's BC, in Greece, could be mounted aristocrats and poorly organized (and equiped) infantry?
Best regards
JP Vieira

[hoplite14gr]

Aristocrats mounted on chariots or horses had a core of well equiped-trained retiniues, mostly infantry. Light troops like the Akarmanes slingers mentioned in Homer tough in bad terrain or fortifications. Archers are menioned too

"Citizen" spear levies would probably fill the gaps. They only became good during time as massed spear tactics were slowly "re-indrodused"

Kind regards

[JP Vieira]

Kaliniti Stefanos
What type of chariot was used in around 900 BC?
Would the infantry retinue of these nobles be better equiped? and how (what type of equipment?
Is there a particular recorded episode of this period that could be illustrated to show the armed forces of this period (with diferent troop types)?
Best regards
JP Vieira

[hoplite14gr]

Kaliniti :?: :?: :!:

900 B.C. (bronze blades still to be found among aristocrats)
Finalization of the conquest of Crete by Doreans.
Finalization of the conquest of Thessaly by Doreans.
Cresphontidae Doreans fight against Pylian Acheans.
Spartan Doreans overpower Amykleans.
Raids in Libya and Egypt.
First colonies in Crimea and Caria.

As Yannis said the chariot was found in Cyprus.
Do Google search using the images option for Kegel helm, Geometric Armies, chariots or Mycenean weapons.

This is a project that takes time and it is not easy. Do not rush.

Kind regards

[JP Vieira]

Hello Stefanos
Thanks for the information.
By the way, I meant kalinihta (good night - is the spelling correct?)
My Greek is not all that good...but I am learning.
Best regards
JP Vieira

[Ioannis]

A really good source on the use of chariots in EIA warfare is the MA thesis of CAROLYN NICOLE CONTER (Florida State University, 2003). If you want a copy do drop me a line off-list.

[Ioannis]

Btw, some of the dates-events mentioned by Stefanos should not be taken for granted. We still have the urge of overusing ancient sources which are unreliable most of the times.

[JP Vieira]

Hello Ioannis
Thanks for your help.
Laudes for you.
Best regards
JP Vieira
PS: I sent you a PM

[Ioannis]

The chariot thesis is available online at: http://etd.lib.fsu.edu/theses/available ... 03-164515/

[JP Vieira]

Many thanks