Replenishment of the Imperial Army and losses.

[Sardaukar]

Welll..what we know...sanitary and accommodation facilities were actually better in legionary camp than they were in US Civil War or Napoleonic camps. I'd not be surpised if rate of death from diseases etc. was actually lower in Roman camps.

US Civil War military camps were notoriously bad and I don't think they compare too well.

[jc02005]

http://romanarmy.aceboard.com/ remember to be a member

[Mitra]

That is only a theory as well, Davide! there are thoughts that he was poisoned as well. No proof for either method of death, as far as I know!

I think the description leave only few doubts about the fact that Germanicus died for a disease and not for a venom. The death time is too long for a venom, and Tacitus speak of not fever period between fever periods, so it is appears to be probably a mortal form of malaria, taken probably in Egypt.

Sure like Rosenstein affirm respect the XIX century armies, the roman armies are more little and move frequently, so the conditions for disease like cholera appear only during the sieges or for the use of contaminated water or make camp in not good place (see Tacitus Hist.2.93), but the contact with external people and external enviroment and climate during a campaign or the simple encamp can exposes to bacteria (exactly like gauls and germans inTacitus), and i think also to fact that, being far the sexual partner of soldiers (wife and concubine) is more frequently the use of prostitutes with the risks of venereal infections.

[Sean Manning]

The Romans did have institutional knowledge of how to fight in any environment in or bordering their empire, though, and generally had better logistics than crusading armies, so I'm not sure if that particular parallel is valid.

Why they did have this knowledge? I doubt this, probably the same Germanicus died for local bacteria after a oriental tour. The impact of another climate and bacterial enviroment is inevitable, especially with the pre-modern medicine knowledge.

Sure roman logistics is better (when the time permit it) but this dont eliminate disease only malnutrition

My impression is that centurions moved about between legions fairly often, and legions and cohortes auxilliae moved about occasionally. Moreover, there seems to have been enough communication amongst units to support a uniform style of clothing and armaments across the whole empire. All in all, I think a significant number of officers and men in any legion would have some knowledge of how to fight in most environments bordering the empire. Units with actual experience would do better, but this partial knowledge would be better than nothing.

And logistics do affect disease rates! For example. I would expect campaigning troops living in organized camps with proper latrines to be healthier than troops living in disorganized camps and relieving themselves anywhere out of the way. (What were the toilet facilities like in a Roman marching camp, anyways?) Still, the impact of disease in moving from northern Europe to the Levant or vice versa would be considerable.

Welll..what we know...sanitary and accommodation facilities were actually better in legionary camp than they were in US Civil War or Napoleonic camps. I'd not be surpised if rate of death from diseases etc. was actually lower in Roman camps.

US Civil War military camps were notoriously bad and I don't think they compare too well.

Are you sure about that last bit? By the middle of the war both armies were very good veteran forces. In any case, the rule that noncombat casualties exceed combat casualties is apparently true for every war we have good records for before WWI. Sometimes the ratio can get as high as 4:1 or 5:1.

Dagann, those figures sound quite reasonable. So the army may have needed around 20,000 recruits per year instead of 15,000.

[Marcus Caecilius Avitus]

Any figures quoted would have been subject to fluctuation even in peacetime. A point that Ross Cowan makes in 'Roman Legionary 58 BC - AD 69.'

Following any significant military campaign or action where attrition was high, the legions would be depleted in manpower. Assuming the total number of legions was not reduced, there would need to be a significant recruitment drive to follow. This could then foreseeably lead to a similar situation some 20/25 years later when this influx of recruits came up for retirment.

Ross suggests that this situation could have resulted in press ganging at certain times.

It is interesting to note that even today in some public service sector roles this see-sawing of manpower levels is quite familiar :roll:

[Mitra]

My impression is that centurions moved about between legions fairly often, and legions and cohortes auxilliae moved about occasionally. ....
Still, the impact of disease in moving from northern Europe to the Levant or vice versa would be considerable.

Personally i think more probable that men moved from a unit to another like centurions search to adapt themself to new local conditions and not to change or mix these. The same for the units moved, especially after starting local recruitment, the pratical aspects change to adapt, and the previous knowledge go lost after 20-30 years. But in all case, weapons and clothing are phisical objects, no links with the problem of new environment.

The problem of latrine is minor when a army is in march and if it isn't in direct contact to water supply source and doesnt request logistical effort, because the "production" hasn't to be moved, the true problem is the "production" of thousand of animals, which request human work.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

That is only a theory as well, Davide! there are thoughts that he was poisoned as well. No proof for either method of death, as far as I know!

I think the description leave only few doubts about the fact that Germanicus died for a disease and not for a venom. The death time is too long for a venom, and Tacitus speak of not fever period between fever periods, so it is appears to be probably a mortal form of malaria, taken probably in Egypt.

.

Will have to read that one again, seemed pretty obvious to me before that there were certain people out to sink him. Perhaps I read too much into it! Anyway, another time..another post