helmets, helmets, everywhere you look a helmet.

[Q Rutilius]

I've been reading the discussion re: attic helmets with interest. Now I am tempted to ask, which was it, definitively, did they have them or not, but I know better than that.

So for amateurs like me can anyone point me in the direction of a primer which displays the various helmet styles: Italo -Corinthian, Attic, Gallic, etc.

I look at the photos and I think that the bowls look pretty much all the same to me; which is not surprising I suppose since a human head is pretty much a human head and they have not changed in like 100, 000 years.

So I assume that there is more too it than bowl shape, but I don't know what to look for. I need a primer and one with lots of pictures, that will illustrate the authors comments.

[Peroni]

H R Robinson..
http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/content/view/147/113/

Roman helmet database..
http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/ ... Itemid,96/

Also..
http://www.romancoins.info/MilitaryEqui ... elmet.html

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I seem to have a picture of a plain helmet bowl from Edinburgh which isn't on these sites.....! :? )

[Peroni]

Best you send in over to me Byron! :wink:

[Caratacus]

I seem to have a picture of a plain helmet bowl from Edinburgh which isn't on these sites.....!

The helmets at the museum in Edinburgh are from Newstead, I think. Can you post the picture here? If not, send them/it to me and let me check it against my records. At least one of these helmets is a cavalry helmet.

If you look into the Helmets database, you will see that there is a link to Robinson's system for describing helmets. This applies to Montefortino, Coolus, Imperial Gallic and Italic and the various cavalry and auxiliary helmet types. Robinson, however, does not deal with the late pattern helmets (Ridge, Intercissa, etc), nor does he deal with the pre-Roman types or the 'Celtic' types. If you can find it, probably the best source for these is "Antike Helme", edited by A. Bottini and published by RGZM, Mainz. Obviously, to get the maximum from this work you need to be able to read German - but there are plenty of pictures there as well.

Caratacus
(Mike Thomas)

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Possibly this was sheathed by the decorative plates ....







The last one is in the same display as the iron helmet in the top two pictures!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

BTW, I did look through the Data base and couldnot find this in the cavelry section which I feel it is, although I could be wrong!

[Caratacus]

The bottom helmet of the group shown above is the cavalry helmet and is an Auxiliary cavalry, Sports Type B. This is not currently in the helmet database.

The helmet which is No.34 in the helmet database is a Type C sports helmet - also from Newstead.

The top two shots are of the Auxiliary cavalry, Type A helmet, also from Newstead originally. This appears in Robinson's book at p.94, No.246. From your photographs and the one in Robinson's book, it appears as though this item has been heavily restored. Originally, there was a large hole above the left temple (as seen by the wearer). If you look carefully at the picture, you can see the line where the new material has been added. This helmet has also not yet been added to the helmet database. We are waiting for a decent photograph. Would you be willing to let us use your shots? If so, please send them off to Jasper.

I believe that at some stage Prof. Manning may be planning to do an article on this helmet as a companion to his treatment of the other, more ornate, cavalry helmet (the Type C, mentioned above).

Caratacus
(Mike Thomas)

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

"We are waiting for a decent photograph. Would you be willing to let us use your shots? If so, please send them off to Jasper. "

Errr, I thought you said 'decent photographs'?

[Caratacus]

"Errr, I thought you said 'decent photographs'?

When you haven't got a photograph, ANY photograph is decent!

The problem with the database (of helmets) is that we cannot use photographs that have been taken out of the various publications (scuh as HRR's work) because of copyright restrictions. This means that we are reliant on people to take photos and send them in, giving permission for them to be used. If you have a glance at the database, you will see that there are numerous entries where we are appealing for a photograph. Jasper does have some of these but his other commitments have prevented him finding the time at present to upload them.

At present we have around 139 helmets recorded, but I know of at least 420 so there is still a lot to go in there.

I repeat, if you have a photograph of a helmet, please can we use it!

Caratacus
(Mike Thomas)

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Yes, I have no problems sending the pictures!
I suppose Jasper will know the details?
I was planning on going back to retake a lot of these, as the focus was out..

[Caratacus]

Yes, I have no problems sending the pictures!
I suppose Jasper will know the details?
I was planning on going back to retake a lot of these, as the focus was out..

If you are in a position to try and retake the photos, that would be great! In most cases (speaking generally), the problem is that you visit a museum (maybe on holiday) and you have to hope that those pictures come out. Even digital cameras are not a lot of help, because the on-screen image doesn't really show you how sharp your pictures are. Ideally, if you can do a set that shows the helmet from the sides, back and front together with any special features, that would be ideal. Of course, the way that the item is displayed in the museum may preclude this.

Jasper can deal with the pictures, if you can get them to him. When they are uploaded onto the database, Jasper will add a comment to sjhow that the copyright is yours.

Caratacus
(Mike Thomas)