Help with a translation

[A. Flavius]

Hello all,

I've been slowly making my way through the Notitia Dignitatum, however there are vast chunks of the text I can't find in English, and my Latin is terrible. I've been trying for the past few days but still not luck with this particular section dealing with the Duke of Arabia. If anyone with far more skill then I have could give me a translation I would much appreciate it.

Dux Arabiae.
{pics}
Sub dispositione viri spectabilis ducis Arabiae:
Equites scutarii Illyriciani, Motha.
Equites promoti Illyriciani, Tricomia.
Equites Dalmatae Illyriciani, Ziza.
Equites Mauri Illyriciani, Areopoli.
Equites promoti indigenae, Speluncis.
Equites promoti indigenae, Mefa.
Equites sagittari indigenae, Gadda.
Praefectus legionis tertiae Cyrenaicae, Bostra.
Praefectus legionis quartae Martiae, Betthoro.
Equites sagittarii indigenae, Dia - Fenis.
Et quae de minore laterculo emittuntur:
Ala nona miliaria, Auatha.
Ala sexta Hispanorum, Gomoha.
Ala secunda Constantiana, Libona.
Ala secunda Miliarensis, Naarsafari.
Ala prima Valentiana, Thainatha.
Ala secunda felix Valentiniana, apud Adittha.
Cohors prima miliaria Thracum, Adtitha.
Cohors prima Thracum, Asabaia.
Cohors octava voluntaria, Ualtha.
Cohors tertia felix Arabum, in ripa Vade Afaris Fluvii in
castris Arnonensibus.
Cohors tertia Alpinorum, apud Arnona.
Officium autem viri spectabilis ducis Arabia et praesidis habet ita:
Principem de scola agentum in rebus.
Numerarios et adiutores eorum.
Commentariensem.
Adiutorem.
A libellis siue subscribendarium.
Exceptores et ceteros officiales.
Item officium praesidis eiusdem provinciae:
Principem de eodem officio.
Cornicularium.
Ordinarios.
Commentariensem.
Numerarios et adiutores eorum.
Adiutorem.
A libellis siue regerendarium.
Exceptores et ceteros officiales.
Dux Arabiae V.

I know this is a big ask but if anyone could help I would appreciate it.

Cheers,

Scott.

[Ludens]

Hello all,

I've been slowly making my way through the Notitia Dignitatum, however there are vast chunks of the text I can't find in English, and my Latin is terrible. I've been trying for the past few days but still not luck with this particular section dealing with the Duke of Arabia. If anyone with far more skill then I have could give me a translation I would much appreciate it.

Dux Arabiae.
{pics}
Sub dispositione viri spectabilis ducis Arabiae:
Equites scutarii Illyriciani, Motha.
Equites promoti Illyriciani, Tricomia.
Equites Dalmatae Illyriciani, Ziza.
Equites Mauri Illyriciani, Areopoli.
Equites promoti indigenae, Speluncis.
Equites promoti indigenae, Mefa.
Equites sagittari indigenae, Gadda.
Praefectus legionis tertiae Cyrenaicae, Bostra.
Praefectus legionis quartae Martiae, Betthoro.
Equites sagittarii indigenae, Dia - Fenis.
Et quae de minore laterculo emittuntur:
Ala nona miliaria, Auatha.
Ala sexta Hispanorum, Gomoha.
Ala secunda Constantiana, Libona.
Ala secunda Miliarensis, Naarsafari.
Ala prima Valentiana, Thainatha.
Ala secunda felix Valentiniana, apud Adittha.
Cohors prima miliaria Thracum, Adtitha.
Cohors prima Thracum, Asabaia.
Cohors octava voluntaria, Ualtha.
Cohors tertia felix Arabum, in ripa Vade Afaris Fluvii in
castris Arnonensibus.
Cohors tertia Alpinorum, apud Arnona.
Officium autem viri spectabilis ducis Arabia et praesidis habet ita:
Principem de scola agentum in rebus.
Numerarios et adiutores eorum.
Commentariensem.
Adiutorem.
A libellis siue subscribendarium.
Exceptores et ceteros officiales.
Item officium praesidis eiusdem provinciae:
Principem de eodem officio.
Cornicularium.
Ordinarios.
Commentariensem.
Numerarios et adiutores eorum.
Adiutorem.
A libellis siue regerendarium.
Exceptores et ceteros officiales.
Dux Arabiae V.

I know this is a big ask but if anyone could help I would appreciate it.

Cheers,

Scott.

I only had one hour latin a week, during just one year, and that's almost 18 years ago. I don't understand all of it, but as far as I know it's something like

"Duke of Arabia"
(pics)
"Here under are the shown men of the Duke of Arabia"
I guess the pics show the army, because all lines under it is just a list of different kind of militairy functions, it's not a real text.
e.g. "Equites scutarii Illyriciani" must be "horsemen with shields form Illyricum", Motha is a name i guess...

But someone with more knowledge of Latin could give you a more detailed translation of the people and function in the list.

[AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs]

Ave,

It's a bit difficult for me to translate because the latin above isn't sentences, it's more like very brief descriptions with Cities and places mentioned, like:

Numerarios et adiutores eorum. (numbers of men and their assistances)

Adiutorem (assistance or helping someone)

A libellis siue subscribendarium. (something about "a little book")

Ordinarios. (ordinary)

Ala secunda felix Valentiniana, apud Adittha (something like "a wing near or according to an Entrance... or "a wing over a lucky entrance")

Equites promoti Illyriciani, Tricomia. (something like “Equestrians pushing or moving forwardâ€

[Tarbicus]

One option is to join http://latinforum.org/ and post your question there.

As a polite gesture, I'd suggest telling them something about the Notitia Dignitatum; quid pro quo. :wink:

[Nicholas Gaukroger]

Must admit I've never been a fan of translating the unit names - always seemed a touch pointless to me.

Equites are cavalry units as are those called "ala", that being an older cavalry unit designation with, IIRC, a literal meaning of wing (as in an army). This is why I think translating them is a bit pointless as the literal meaning is, in fact, meaningless in the context.

I suppose you could say "cavalry regiment" for ala and equites if you really want an English version.

However, all the words after the unit names e.g. the "Motha" in "Equites scutarii Illyriciani, Motha" are the place the unit is stationed. You may be able to find put what their modern names are but possibly not all.

[D B Campbell]

"Here under are the shown men of the Duke of Arabia"

It's actually the Dux who's the vir spectabilis, so the text runs:
"Under the control of the most admirable Duke of Arabia: ..."
(If I remember correctly, this is not idle flattery -- there were recognised grades of viri.)

As the others have explained, Scott, the ND is mostly a list of regiments with their HQs. So the first item tells us that the Equites scutarii Illyriciani were stationed at a place called Motha (thought to be Imtan in southern Syria.)

When you get down to Praefectus legionis tertiae Cyrenaicae, Bostra, that's the "Prefect of Legion III Cyrenaica, at Bostra", a long-established fortress in present-day Syria.

Then Praefectus legionis quartae Martiae, Betthoro is the "Prefect of Legion IV Martia, at Betthorus", thought to be the fortress of El-Lejjun in Jordan.

The next bit (Et quae de minore laterculo emittuntur) means "And the ones which are assigned from the lesser list", and includes the old-style lower-status regiments.
For example, the Cohors prima miliaria Thracum, Adtitha is the Cohors I Thracum Milliaria, at a place called Adtitha (?unknown).

The only complicated one is Cohors tertia felix Arabum, in ripa Uade Afaris fluuii in castris Arnonensibus: the Cohors III Arabum Felix, "on the bank of the river in the Wadi Afar at Castra Arnonensibus". (Again, I have no idea of the location.)

Have fun!!

[D B Campbell]

Oops -- forgot the last bit. :oops:

Officium autem viri spectabilis ducis Arabia et praesidis habet ita:
The staff of the same most admirable dux of Arabia and praeses (technically a frontier commander) is as follows:

Principem de scola agentum in rebus.
Chief of staff, from the schola of secret agents

Numerarios et adiutores eorum.
Accountants and their assistants

Commentariensem.
A records officer

Adiutorem.
An assistant

A libellis siue subscribendarium.
A receiver of petitions or under-secretary

Exceptores et ceteros officiales.
Scribes and other officials

Item officium praesidis eiusdem provinciae:
And in the office of the praeses of the same province:

Principem de eodem officio.
A chief of staff

Cornicularium.
An adjutant

Ordinarios.
? Regular staff ? (afaik This is the only place where this word appears in the ND)

Commentariensem.
A records officer

Numerarios et adiutores eorum.
Accountants and their assistants

Adiutorem.
An assistant

A libellis siue regerendarium.
A receiver of petitions or confidential clerk

Exceptores et ceteros officiales.
Scribes and other officials

The good news is that (afaik) Peter Brennan is supposedly working on an English translation for Liverpool University Press in the "Translated Texts for Historians" series. I think ...

[Nicholas Gaukroger]

Oh, while we're here we may as well do:

Equites Sagittarii Indigenae - more or less Local Horse Archers

Equites Promoti Indigenae - IIRC equites promoti were originally the legionary cavalry, you were promoted to them and that is what "promoti" should be taken to mean.

Scuraii - those carrying a scutum i.e. a large shield

Mauri - Moors

Dalmatae - from Dalmatia

Illyricani - probably more difficult as they are combined with other names, IMO they are units that were based in Illyricum at some time during the crisis period in the C3rd but to be honest I don't think there is a definitive answer.

[A. Flavius]

Hello all,

Thank you all for the help. The individual unit titles can be worked out to a certain extent by myself, however there was one sentence there in particular that had me stumped. But again, thank you for the help. I appreciate it.

Cheers,

Scott.

[A. Flavius]

Sorry all,

Whilst I'm at it, would anyone know a translation of the infamous agentes in rebus? I've been trying out a few translators online, however the closest I can get is something along the line of 'Secret Police Regarding Affairs'?

Cheers,

Scott.

[Carlton Bach]

Sorry all,

Whilst I'm at it, would anyone know a translation of the infamous agentes in rebus? I've been trying out a few translators online, however the closest I can get is something along the line of 'Secret Police Regarding Affairs'?

Well, the Agentes in Rebus are a bit of a puzzler so it's not that surprising. First of all, they were organised more or less a along military lines, but were not technically soldiers and subject IIRC to the Magister Officiorum, not the Magister Militum. Without the later development of the word 'agent' taking on a meaning in itself, their name really means something along the lines of 'doers of things' (I suspect the assumption that they were some kind of KGB is based partly on the modern reading of 'agent').

As far as I know (and this was read a long time ago), their main employment was with the public post. They supervised its use, read communications and carried confidential messages (and supervised the implementation of orders they transmitted where necessary, too). A professor of mine once referred to them as 'Postbeamte zbV' - a German phrase that broadly translates as 'special forces mail carriers'. Their further career path (if any) was not into the military hierarchy but into the administration, and there are several sources that speak to their venality.

I'm guessing something a bit like the frumentarii of the early Empire.

[D B Campbell]

... the infamous agentes in rebus?

Not being particularly a specialist in late Roman affairs, I did a little digging, and have amended my translation of "Principem de scola agentum in rebus" accordingly. (See earlier post.)

I (and probably you, too, Scott) imagined that this man was the chief (princeps) of a body of agentes. Not so! Apparently, in the eastern provinces alone, the various chiefs of staff belonging to each dux or comes were drawn from the ranks of the agentes in rebus.

So there is no question of the Dux Arabiae having a body of agentes in rebus at his disposal. Instead, his chief of staff was himself an agens.

[size=75:3fgar5yv]* Information from: A.E.R. Boak, "The Roman magistri in the civil and military service of the empire", Harvard Studies in Classical Philology 26 (1915) 73ff.[/size]

[Titvs Statilivs Castvs]

"Here under are the shown men of the Duke of Arabia"

It's actually the Dux who's the vir spectabilis, so the text runs:
"Under the control of the most admirable Duke of Arabia: ..."
(If I remember correctly, this is not idle flattery -- there were recognised grades of viri.)

And, correct me if I'm wrong, Dux means "Leader" or "General", not Duke. Knew the Romans such a title? I think not.

[D B Campbell]

Dux means "Leader" or "General", not Duke. Knew the Romans such a title? I think not.

It's the usual translation in English, Sander. In fact, it's where we get our word "Duke" from.
Of course, you could just call him Dux Arabiae, if you wish.

[Titvs Statilivs Castvs]

:oops: I knew the word Duke comes from Dux, but not it was also the most common translation. :oops: