Helmet Question

[Correus]

SALVETE OMNES!

I am more of a re-enactor wannabe. I belong to no LEGIO and only know of three others in my area that are interested in various forms of Roman re-enacting.

However, I have always wanted to have a Roman military trophy / uniform display. First item on the list is going to be a helmet.

Here is my first question. If you could only pick one Deepeeka helmet, which would you choose the Galic 'G' or Galic 'H' and why?

Is there an alternate that would be preferred?

Second question. Do any of you have a second hand version of these you’d be willing to part with?

Thanks.

[Robert]

Salve Correvs,

As a forum rule, it is manditory to put your real name in your signature.

On the helmets; there a great many impressions you could reconsider. Perhaps it is best to decide on what kind of Roman you want to be (the period you will be portaying) before going for a helmet. The uniforms and armour evolve over time, so picking a helmet will also have influence on your shield, spear, sword, belt, dagger, shoes etc. etc.
You will also need to decide if you want to be a Roman miles or an auxillia, a cavalryman or an archer, for instance. If you go for a centurion impression, thing change drasticly again and again, the period is all important.

I definitly do not want to put you off, but a bit more mulling on the possible options may be in order and will help you portray a believable Roman, thus earning respect. If you three friends choose the same time period, you would have the makings of you own group there and then.

[Correus]

Salve Robert!

Have have tried several times to get my real name to show up over my avatar, but can't seem to get it to work. I have listed my real name everywhere on my profile where it was asked. Thought this would do it but evidently not - <sigh>. So, I've added it to my signature.

Anyway, I guess I should have included more info. Here is what I have for a persona so far. I live in the mid 1st century AD, my father was a legate of LEGIO X Fretensis and my mother was the daughter of a chieftain from Gallia Belgica.

[Marcus Mummius]

Salve Correvs,

As a forum rule, it is manditory to put your real name in your signature.

It has to be in your signature, not above your avatar.

[Correus]

So I'm okay now - right?

[Cornelius Quintus]

Ave Correus,

Robert is right – first check which period of time you want to re-enact.
You want to join a group ? Then ask them what suits best to their unit impression.

Concernng both Deepeeka helmets, it’s rather a matter of personal choice. The main difference between G and H is the angle of the neck guard. Both are usually regarded as first century helmets, the G rather from mid-first century on and the H from the third quarter. You find much information in the Roman Amy helmet database:
http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/ ... Itemid,96/

To be honest, dating the main service time of a helmet is very difficult. Some helmets saw decades of duty (showing inscriptions of up to five wearer names). The classification (Imperial Italic G and H) follows the late Robinson. This indicates a somewhat straight line of development, with one type following the other. Today, with more finds available, this system is in discussion. Some ‘types’ may just have been local variants or been used at the same time. But that’s another topic…

If you are looking for a second hand Deepeeka Gallic G or H, it should be by all means a new model (item number with an ‘N’). Deepeeka vastly improved their helmet range in the last year. You find also vast information about that in the Deepeeka sub-forum here on RAT. Because they started overhauling with the Gallic G and H, the matching threads may rather be found some pages back...

The former ‘old’ production line had a fatal flaw: four occipital ridges instead of three, so the neck guard was placed far too low. You can’t correct that without major surgery. The new ‘N’ line was developed with the help of RAT members and is very decent now in shape and detail.

[Correus]

Ave Cornelius Quintus!

Thank you for the helpful info! especially the part about the 'N'. I will keep a look out for that.

Did you have a look at the other post I did on this thread? I addeda little more to the info in regard to the time period. I gather from what you say, i'd me safe with a Galic 'G'.

I appreciate the help.

Any idea where to look for a second hand helmet, or other items?

[Cornelius Quintus]

Ave Larry,

yes, with the G you are on the safe side. But depending on the unit, location and rank, other solutions are possible. Especially previous models could have widely been in service or even still in production around 50 A.D.

A Gallic F also may be possible (For detail see the helmet database or ask experts like Tarbicus – he mainly developed the Deepeeka Gallic F).

With your virtual father being a legate of Legio XF you probably wouldn’t be equipped with the oldest and battered headgear your Legion’s quartermaster usually issues to the bloody new recruits.

Regarding the usual price level, buying from one of the well known Deepeeka-dealers might be a good option. Some have their own sub-forum in the marketplace area on RAT. They’ll guide you and can take care, that you’ll receive a new Deepeeka helmet without the former flaws. It’s probably not easy to find a second hand ‘N’-line helmet, but a lot of old models or crude copies are on the market (sometimes offered by dealers in a certain ‘bay’).

Better take your time and don’t buy immediately too much ‘cheap’ items. As long as you only are ‘collecting’, you won’t need a complete kit at once. Start with the must haves (tunic and caligae…) and go on step by step. Of course especially a helmet gives an instant ‘Roman’ feeling, even when one is wearing blue jeans :wink: . If you join a group, they certainly will help. Some have spare equipment, which can be borrowed by beginners.

The Legio XX online handbook by Matt Amt is also extremely recommended.

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/hndbk.html

You’ll find there many reviews about custom made and off-the-shelf-products (Notice the page: Items to avoid :wink: ).

[Robert]

Please note that caligae were going out of fashion mid first century according to a post by Martin Moser recently. Please check up on that before going into footwear. Around that time, the sword was more often being suspended from a strap over the shoulder, only one belt was worn and the apron strips were shortening. However, as Marcus pointed out, there is good evidence the old way (two belts) was still around. :oops: For a pugio, I suggest a type B scabbard and a more slender blade, Mainz type blade then the Republican and later third century meatcleavers.

[Matthew Amt]

Here is what I have for a persona so far. I live in the mid 1st century AD, my father was a legate of LEGIO X Fretensis and my mother was the daughter of a chieftain from Gallia Belgica.

My advice is to forget about a "persona" entirely for a few years, just focus on an *impression*. Pick your time, place, and status and gather the gear that fits those criteria. In the mid-first century AD, for instance, you have a LOT of helmet options!

If your father was a legate, he's a senator. As I understand it, if your mother was a Roman citizen, you will (because of your father's status) also be a senator, but if she was not, I'm not sure you'd be a citizen. If mom and dad weren't married (a legal Roman marriage), you'd be considered illegitimate and would not be a Roman citizen. So there's almost no way you would be a legionary, since if you are a legitimate citizen you are too high in rank--you'd first see service as a tribune laticlavus (senatorial tribune)--and if you are not a citizen you could generally only serve as an auxiliary. Sure, the laws fluctuated over time and there were always loopholes and special cases, but those are probably good rules of thumb.

The vast majority of spectators at an event do not want to hear your life's story and family troubles. They want to know what you are doing NOW, and mostly what you are wearing and using. Eventually, a little background history might be useful, but mostly just from the standpoint of explaining demographics. Best to stick to the lower class and avoid the mix-cultural parentage, unless you are the offspring of a retired soldier and a local provincial girl--very common! THOSE marriages were recognized as legal by Rome, which assures your citizenship.

Back to helmets specifically, a lot depends on which type you like. I definitely recommend sticking with the most accurate ones whenever possible, but there's still a good variety from which to choose. Frankly I still think that Coolus helmets were more common than Gallics in the early to mid-first century! But get what *you* like.

Oh, and 3 or 4 potential Romans sounds like a group to me! It doesn't have to be rigidly formal or incorporated or anything, and you don't have to start with 10 or 20 people. BUT running a group isn't something I push people into! Got a web page on that, of course:

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/advice.html

Good luck!

Matthew

[Marcus Mummius]

Around that time, the sword was suspended from a strap over the shoulder, only one belt was worn and the apron strips were shortening.

That's a big oversimplification Robert :wink:

For example the Herculaneum soldier, who died in 79AD wore two belts. This shows that the older suspension system ceryainly hadn't disappeared in the last quarter of the first century AD. I'd sugest if you wear a segmentata go for a shoulder baldric for the sword and if you wear hamata or squamata go for two belts (or if you want a shoulder baldric).

Vale,

[Magnus]

^ ^ Matt got me started...and all it took was a website and one other person to get me going, along with a lot of pestering emails to Mr. Amt. 8)

Good luck!

(Oh, and personal gear comes down to personal choice. Which will change as time goes on, which means you'll end up owning more than one helmet likely lol. )

[AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs]

Ave Correus,

Do first consider what time period you want to recreate and then second start picking things up... as has been said.

I would also suggest you consider making many parts of your kit, you could search online and see patterns for shoes, boots, and tunics... just for example. That will save you lots of cash... just don't over embellish, otherwise you someone might yell at you! :wink:

Also, look around at the legions around where you live, make sure that if all of them want their troops in a red tunic, it would make since not to buy or make a white one.

Lastly, it's not always as important knowing what to buy... it's more important knowing what NOT to buy. You could spend a fortune buying crap that no one in recreation would ever let you wear at an event... even thought he seller told you it was authentic and provided you a history lesson.

Here's a great link of what NOT to buy: http://www.larp.com/legioxx/bad.html

[Correus]

SALVETE OMNES!

Thank you all for the great info. You've given me a lot to think over.

I had no idea about the caligae, I'll hunt for that post.

I am trying to put together a"meet-n-greet" for the Romanophiles in the area. So far two have responded favorable; still waiting for the other two.

[Aetius Helvius Merula]

Ave Correus.

OK first about the topic....I'm partial to the Gallic H. I like the sloping neckguard. Seems it'd deflect blows to the neck more easily. And I just like the aesthetics of it. When my 3 man legion gets to the point of doing events, I can explain to anyone who's interested, the reasons why helmets and other items were different. And finally, once my basic kit is aquired/made, I plan on doing a signifer impression. With the Gallic H, it seems likely that the neckguard wouldn't thrust out the bear/wolf hide so much when I turn my head.

I'm in the same boat as you are. My group consists of me and 2 other guys who wanted to reenact 1st century Rome (legio XIII, Britian), but there were no groups in the PacNW, so we started our own. Thus far, we're slowly aquiring our kits and doing research. I'm just a beginner, but I think research is the most important. I want to know how to look and act like a Roman, and if I carry that off, people will be impressed and ask how and why we do all these things. I'd thought of a basic persona if people ask personal questions when we're doing an event, but if not I won't bore them with it.

But that's for the future. For now, I'm buying what I can't make, and preparing to make what I can. Both because I'm cheap, and I like to make things. My materials and stuff is beginning to arrive, and I'm trying to research either remains to base my works on, or sculpture and art to extrapolate.

Hope that helps out.