Roman Tunic Color

[Correus]

SALVETE OMNES!

I know this can be a touchy subject but I'm not trying to 'stir the pot'.

I attempted to do a 'search' of RAT but kept getting bumped out.

Anyway, I was wondering if there has been any new info discovered dealing with Roman military tunic colors.

Not wishing to debate this, just looking for the latest info.

Thanks.

[Graham Sumner]

Hello Correus (Is that your real name? If not you need to add it to your posts, Forum rules.)

Have you read the Osprey series on Roman Military Clothing? If not all the readily available evidence on Tunic colour is in those 3 books.

However if you have read them and still want more information on Tunic colour then everything I have found since the Osprey series was written will be published next year, either in a book co-produced with Raffaele D'Amato (available from Greenhills) or my own book for Tempus publishing.

There is far too much evidence on tunics and tunic colour to be presented in a single RAT post without either being too selective or too biased.

Graham.

[Correus]

I have tried to add my real name. It is listed everywhere in my profile that it's asked for, but for some reason the other keeps showing up over the avatar.

[Tarbicus]

I have tried to add my real name. It is listed everywhere in my profile that it's asked for, but for some reason the other keeps showing up over the avatar.

It needs to go into your actual signature.

[Correus]

Then I should be okay - right?

[Magnus]

Yep, that's fine Larry.

For tunic colour...again, what do you prefer? There is evidence for white, red, blue, green..off white and an off yellow if I recall. So it depends what you want to do.

And buying or borrowing Graham's book from the library will answer most of your questions about roman military clothing.

[Wes]

Graham,

Do you have a link for selling the books or do we have to go through Osprey?? I have the 1st, need the others.

Wes

[Correus]

I guess I'd better be getting these!

Thanks for the help!

[Tarbicus]

Do you have a link for selling the books or do we have to go through Osprey?? I have the 1st, need the others.

Wes, Ebay and Amazon usually have them all on a consistent basis.

[Ebusitanus]

However if you have read them and still want more information on Tunic colour then everything I have found since the Osprey series was written will be published next year, either in a book co-produced with Raffaele D'Amato (available from Greenhills) or my own book for Tempus publishing.

I have your first book and while I understand you want to sell the second one too...C´mon, throw us a little bone here. We will buy your book regardless anyhow

[Ceannt]

I am of the opinion that the tunic was of one colour(white for infantry,red for optios.centureons ect). but untill they find the quatermaster's log stating the offical colour of the army tunic then then it can be whatever colour you like.

[Graham Sumner]

I have your first book and while I understand you want to sell the second one too...C´mon, throw us a little bone here. We will buy your book regardless anyhow

I thought that was a bone. OK will this do for now?

THIS BOOK STUDIES THE RICH ARCHAEOLOGICAL, LITERARY, SCULPTURAL AND PICTORIAL EVIDENCE FOR ROMAN MILITARY DRESS AS WELL AS EXPLORING THE BACKGROUND OF THE ROMAN WOOL, TEXTILE AND LEATHER INDUSTRIES AND HOW THE SOLDIERS WERE SUPPLIED WITH THEIR CLOTHING.

THIS PUBLICATION IS THE RESULT OF OVER TEN YEARS RESEARCH INTO THE SUBJECT OF ROMAN MILITARY DRESS. THE AUTHOR ILLUSTRATOR HAS ALSO DRAWN ON HIS EXPERIENCES AS A RE-ENACTOR TO EXPLORE THE RICH AND VARIED SOURCES OF EVIDENCE FOR THE TYPES OF CLOTHING UTILISED BY THE ROMAN SOLDIER.

THIS BOOK WILL TRACE THE DEVELOPMENT OF MILITARY CLOTHING FROM THE DAYS OF ROMULUS THROUGH THE WARS OF THE LATE REPUBLIC WHICH BROUGHT ABOUT THE EMPIRE, TO THE COLLAPSE OF ROMAN POWER IN THE WEST IN THE FIFTH CENTURY AD. A FINAL CHAPTER WILL LOOK FORWARD IN TIME TO THE CONTINUANCE OF THE EMPIRE IN THE EAST AND THE RISE OF BYZANTIUM.

MUCH OF THE EVIDENCE FOR MILITARY CLOTHING HAS UNTIL RECENTLY BEEN UNAVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL READER. OFTEN IT HAS BEEN OVERLOOKED EVEN BY EXPERTS OR HIDDEN AWAY IN PUBLICATIONS DEALING WITH SUBJECTS WHICH AT FIRST GLANCE CAN CONFUSE THE NON SPECIALIST WITH AN INTEREST IN ROMAN TEXTILES.

THIS PUBLICATION WILL THEREFORE BRING TOGETHER MANY OF THESE DISPARATE ELEMENTS FOR THE FIRST TIME BY MEANS OF FULL SCALE COLOUR RECONSTRUCTIONS, PATTERNS AND DIAGRAMS TOGETHER WITH ILLUSTRATIONS OF RARE TEXTILE FINDS AND ARCHAEOLOGICAL DISCOVERIES. THE COLOURFUL WORLD OF THE ROMAN SOLDIER WILL BE VIVIDLY BROUGHT TO LIFE.

Remember the more time I spend on RAT the longer it will take to finish the job! :wink: Pleased to hear you will buy it when it does come out! However it will be my fourth book, you seemed to have missed some!

I am of the opinion that the tunic was of one colour(white for infantry,red for optios.centureons ect). but untill they find the quatermaster's log stating the offical colour of the army tunic then then it can be whatever colour you like.

Based on what evidence???

Graham.

[Tarbicus]

Graham, you've been busy

[Ironhand]

Why does there have to be a uniform color? What cultural evidence shows that it would be important to them that there were distinct colors? It fits our modern sensibilities to see rows and rows of similarly equipped Romans, but it seems to be quite a modern thing to have rigid uniform standards. How much of this is our own modern impressions of what we imagine them to look like from Hollywood etc. and modern armies that we overlay onto the past? Most uniforms are not even very visible during combat being covered by shields etc. so is color important for identification? I think we place too much importance on uniform color and perhaps the Romans would be laughing at us now. Its not like officers and other positions are not fairly distinctive by differences in other equipment that they wear. Is it truly necessary for them to have differently colored tunics? Roman armies seem very practically based and seem to pretty much have regulation based on whats necessary. At the same time though they seem pretty lax as long as you have the essentials that you need. Are things really regulated aside from practical sense? If you're infantry a bright red tunic would probably fade quick. You'd rather spend your money on drink, women, gambling, etc. when you get a chance so perhaps you'd prefer a simpler white tunic to a fancier one that will only get damaged and fade anyway. If you're an officer that bright tunic and cloak will probably last longer, good appearance is more necessary to your job, and you can afford a replacement easier. Are these things truly regulated or does thing fall into certain patterns naturally and we are misreading things? Perhaps the common soldier wore red to show to foreign armies their wealth and prosperity. It wasn't like Roman armies did not go to great lengths to create an impressive apperance. By being too rigid in thinking we can be misrepresenting things just as much. One question is can a simple soldier have the freedom if he wills to wear what he wishes even if its stupid and he's making a peacock of himself (their always is someone who doesn't follow the norm) or will his superiors yell at him and force him back into his white/ red basic standard tunic. Honestly, barring a practical reason I cannot see the Roman army caring that much. Blue, white, red as long as you are not trying to represent yourself as an officer I don't see much of a conflict as long as you present an impressive formidable appearance. Now I'm sure there were preferences, but without reason its hard to speculate without getting specific.

Just some basic questions we need to frame in our minds when attempting this difficult question.

[Crispvs]

"However it will be my fourth book"

Really Graham? And there was me thinking you wrote the 'Rome: Wars of Empire' for Brassy. Ah well, so much for me knowing everything.

Nice illustrations in 'Ancient Warfare' by the way.

Crispvs