11-27-2007, 03:37 PM
Hi - I'm sure that you're preaching to the converted. I'm quite aware of the gladiatorial aspects of your argument (sheesh, I'd have to be or I'll get lynched by you lot come March), and as you know autocrati were on the rise in the Imperial era (I actually read somewhere the ratio was something like 40% at one time, but I can't find the reference right now).
All I'm saying is that from the evidence I have, wrestling was the pre-eminent martial art of the upper classes in both Hellenic and Roman societies. I'm not saying that boxing wasn't practiced, but it wasn't held in such high esteem.
Marius is a great example here, but as far as I know, Marius was regarded as a bit of a New Man by the patricians of his time,so rolling around on the campus martius may not have been the order of the day for the Sullans! But you never know.
I think we're both singing from the same hymn-sheet...but I've yet to see any evidence that equates virtus to boxing being the martial art of choice. I'm sure it was part of it, but as I say from the source I have here, wrestling was the daddy. Its a verified source, but as I said earlier, its the only one I've got, so there are bound to be others! At the end of the day, the philosophy of virtus could be applied to pretty much any situation.
But that wasn't the initial question, which was the one I was trying to answer. To be honest, I think we've pretty much done that here!
Cheers
Russ
All I'm saying is that from the evidence I have, wrestling was the pre-eminent martial art of the upper classes in both Hellenic and Roman societies. I'm not saying that boxing wasn't practiced, but it wasn't held in such high esteem.
Marius is a great example here, but as far as I know, Marius was regarded as a bit of a New Man by the patricians of his time,so rolling around on the campus martius may not have been the order of the day for the Sullans! But you never know.
I think we're both singing from the same hymn-sheet...but I've yet to see any evidence that equates virtus to boxing being the martial art of choice. I'm sure it was part of it, but as I say from the source I have here, wrestling was the daddy. Its a verified source, but as I said earlier, its the only one I've got, so there are bound to be others! At the end of the day, the philosophy of virtus could be applied to pretty much any situation.
But that wasn't the initial question, which was the one I was trying to answer. To be honest, I think we've pretty much done that here!
Cheers
Russ
