Cavalry or Officers helmets ? a proper debate..

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

LS,

I would like to open this topic to create a SCIENTIFIC debate about the Roman helmets (facemasks or not) which are almost always classified as
Cavalry Auxilia helmets.

Okay provided the helmets are found in a strict Cavalry setting, they could be classed as such.

But for instance the Kops Plateau helmets, as well as several other helmets which were found, to me look much more like higher class officer's helemts than Auxilia Cavalry (batavian, germanic, Gallic) helmets. Also since the Kops plateau helmets were found in a mixed setting as well as a very large praetorium on the site, from the Drusus campaign era.

Also, the higher ranking officers in a Legion were almost always mounted, and also the Legates had their own Cavalry squad supporting/guarding them.

Then why are most scholars always going on about hippika gymnasia helmets, Cavalry was richer than the Legion, and why does no one adhere to the fact that these elaborate helmets, wether or not found in a votive context simply CANNOT be ONLY classed to have belonged to "normal" Cavalry soldiers?

An auxiliary soldiers (cavalryman's) pay did not substantially differ that much to that of the legionaries pay, let alone that of the Higher ranking officers.

So in my view it must be likely or even higly likely that some of the helmets we have found belonged to the highest class of officers, namely those who could afford to ditch a helmet in a votive offering.

I would like all of you to join in this debate to get somewhere.

Either the theory could be discarded or maybe a new view on these helmets can change the view we have on them.

A few examples:

Weiler

http://www.romancoins.info/weiler.JPG

http://www.legionsix.org/cavalryleft.jpg

Nijmegen

http://www.romancoins.info/milit-mask-N.jpg

All typically attic forms of the helmet bowl/neck...

there are a lot of other pics out there but this is just a start...

what are YOUR ideas?

M.VIB.M.

[Caballo]

Or as a further alternative, their standard helmet worn in battle to create a psychological advantage? In a close formed cavalry unit, the peripheral vision loss could be outweighed by the terror struck into the enemy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U-5ZKslVaY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frguFsec ... re=related

[jvrjenivs]

But for instance the Kops Plateau helmets, as well as several other helmets which were found, to me look much more like higher class officer's helemts than Auxilia Cavalry (batavian, germanic, Gallic) helmets. Also since the Kops plateau helmets were found in a mixed setting as well as a very large praetorium on the site, from the Drusus campaign era.

Okay, let me start with the site (and helmets) I'm most familiar with. You're right saying that the first campement on the Kops Plateau was most probably a the centre of command of the Drusus campaign and had a very nice and large praetorium, surely when you take into account that the camp was very small. But, in 10 AD this campement was rebuilt, a little bit bigger (the wall we built last week was of this period), and now we see also stable and training facilities beeing built along the roads from the Kops Plateau to cuick and such things. Driessens, in his recent work on Nijmegen, suggest that at this time the Kops Plateau became a training centre for the batavian cavalry. Also there was found a bunch of horse gear and some horses, buried there in this period. Okay, this is based on the helmets, and so isn't afact against your opinion, but still it's possible.



Also as we look at those ornate helmets, we see a small neckplate, which is a feature needed for cavalry. We also see facemask with ears and a pattern of horsehair glued onto the helmet. Both features (ears on the mask and hair patterns on the helmets) we don't see on helmets identified as 'infantry' but on other most probably cavalry helmet found at Xanten for instance. Willemsen and ven Enckevort argue that these horse hair was a special feature from the 'batavians' of this erea, which probably found his origin in a long batavian tradition. (For instance the use of furs onto the helmets).

Then on another mask. The famous Kalkriese mask. This one has no ears, an therefor is a little bit different. To get you fully protected I would say you nee a helmet with cheekplates. Again we know of cavalry helmets (at least indentified so) with cheekplates, but without attaching studs for a mask), which could suggest the use with a 'normal infantry helmet'. For instance of a standart bearer.

[sulla felix]

So in my view it must be likely or even higly likely that some of the helmets we have found belonged to the highest class of officers, namely those who could afford to ditch a helmet in a votive offering.

Well first you have to understand the votive offering - what if the helmet was of a colleague fallen in battle (personal belonging of the dead). The cost of such a helmet to the individual would then be completely irrelevant? An act of commemorating a fallen comrade and "retiring" his kit as an offering to the Gods?

[jvrjenivs]

So in my view it must be likely or even higly likely that some of the helmets we have found belonged to the highest class of officers, namely those who could afford to ditch a helmet in a votive offering.

Well first you have to understand the votive offering - what if the helmet was of a colleague fallen in battle (personal belonging of the dead). The cost of such a helmet to the individual would then be completely irrelevant? An act of commemorating a fallen comrade and "retiring" his kit as an offering to the Gods?

I even looked over this part of the first post. Willemsen and van Enckevort, (as do I) argue that the helmets offered on the Kops Plateau are probably offered there by batavian cavalry (weren't those cavalry troops famous?) veterans, which started their service at the Kops Plateau? We know of a lot of vorive offering of militairy gear after their service in the whole rhine area, so that make some sence to me. (see also Johan Nicolay - Armed batavians)

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

10AD? that was only a year after the Varian disaster....
when was the Drusus campaign dated?
I thought it was several years after? :?

[jvrjenivs]

As you can see here Drusus was already dead during the Varian disaster. The Kops Plateau came into use around 10 BC and was rebuilt in around 10 AD and again around 35 AD. It got out of use around 69 AD (Batavian revolt?)

[Peroni]

Another helmet that immediately comes to mind is the Witcham Gravel auxiliary cavalry type B.

Strip away the brass skinning and what you have is a typical Weisenau shaped bowl and neck guard. This helmet was possibly an officer's helmet as it is incredibly ornate and has a longer neck guard than most contemporary cavalry helmets of the Weiler type.

http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/ ... Itemid,96/

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

As you can see here Drusus was already dead during the Varian disaster. The Kops Plateau came into use around 10 BC and was rebuilt in around 10 AD and again around 35 AD. It got out of use around 69 AD (Batavian revolt?)

Sorry, was confusing him with Germanicus... :roll: :oops: My apologies!

Another helmet that immediately comes to mind is the Witcham Gravel auxiliary cavalry type B.

Strip away the brass skinning and what you have is a typical Weisenau shaped bowl and neck guard. This helmet was possibly an officer's helmet as it is incredibly ornate and has a longer neck guard than most contemporary cavalry helmets of the Weiler type.

That has been playing on my mind as well.....I can see the reaction to wearing it on parade.... :twisted:

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

That is also why i dont mention all helmets of the Kops plateau, but there are certain helmets found throughout the Roman empire which are so very elaborate that the chance a regular auxiliary cavalryman could not pay for them is high.

so, i mean these helmet types, which are not distinctly batavian but distinctly "hellenistic" Roman.

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/12/1 ... 40x540.jpg

http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/ ... Itemid,96/

http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/ ... Itemid,96/

http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/chg/cont ... 7_3823.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1391/109 ... db.jpg?v=0

http://romancoins.info/Theilenhofen.jpg

M.VIB.M.

[Peroni]

The Weiler type helmets are often seen on tombstones of ordinary troopers, so I would discount those types as being just for senior officers.

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

Ah okay, we'll discount the less elaborate weiler types for the moment

M.VIB.M.