10-31-2007, 04:34 PM
Quote:Indeed very interesting. Nice to see that the pilos helmet was apparently still in use at that late date.
There are a couple of pieces of evidence (including a terracotta figurine of a dead soldier from Pergamon who wears a pilos helmet and beside whom lies a small round shield; both are painted blue, undoubtedly representing iron) that even point to its popularity in the second century BC- perhaps a revival of sorts?
Quote:The rims of the shields are clearly visible, although the shield of the phalangite with the crested pilos could also be interpreted as rimless.
Yes, some of those shields are clearly entirely rimless, just like the Macedonian shields on the Aemilius Paullus relief. It seems that rimless shields were employed alongside shields with diminutive rims by phalangites. It is no surprise, really, as just like every other piece of defensive equipment in use at this time, many different forms are found in use at the same time and even amongst the same unit of men.
Quote:What makes us sure that phalangites with sarissai were depicted? That the position of the arms seems to indicate a two-handed hold? Couldn't warriors with a shorter spear and a one hand hold be depicted?
They could, but I find it extremely unlikely.
Quote:Very strange is the position of the shield of the first phalangite with the crested pilos. The deepest part of the shield is shown to the right of the spear/pike. How could someone manage to handle shield and pike in such a way with a two hands hold? A strap or something else, from which the shield could be supported, can not be seen. He must have hold the left hand in reverse (?), otherwise he might have been an anatomical monster :lol: (or the depiction is just bad).
My explanation would be that Hellenistic artists sometimes awkwardly warped anatomy and perspective in order to fit things together properly. Examples of this can be found in much of ancient Greco-Roman art in general.
Quote:It is a bit impudent but it would be very interesting to see also the other example mentioned by you, Ruben, not mainly because of the sarissa problem but in general. :wink: Is armour seen on it? What sword does the thureophoros have? From your explanations I get the clue that he wears no armour.
No armour is depicted on it, though the phalangite's legs are quite badly damaged, so I can't tell if he would be wearing greaves. The phalangite's body is quite well-preserved, however, and he is clearly only wearing a tunic. He may be wearing a helmet, but his head is so badly effaced that I simply can't tell. The sword of the thureophoros is, unfortunately, also badly damaged, but from the shape of what remains of it, it seems like it is a xiphos.
Quote:What were the enemies of the phalangites? Galatians and Greeks or Asians?
To add a bit to what Duncan wrote, they appear as if they could be either Italians or Galatians. IIRC, maybe you can add to this if I am missing something Duncan, the main evidence for them being Italians is that they wear kilts with bare upper bodies like one of the figures (or some? I can't remember) fighting on the Roman side on the Aemilius Paullus relief; that the shapes of the swords they are carrying look rather un-Celtic; and that the one on the far right seems to wear a headband or a cap with a feather in it, this being a much more Italic than Celtic thing.
The points of evidence that I see for them being Galatians is that the fallen figure on the ground beneath the rightmost cavalryman has a thick double belt, which is extremely similar to those seen on some figurines from Seleuceia on the Tigris which are most likely Galatians and which also wear kilts. In addition to this, the kilt in general was apparently fairly common among Galatian warriors. Since we last discussed this piece I've found a couple of new depictions of a Galatian cavalryman and three infantrymen wearing only kilts on funerary stelae of the second century BC.
It's unfortunate that the shape of the helmet of the fallen thureophoros is so ambiguously Montefortino-like, because it could easily be Celtic or Italic. So, it's unfortunately not clear one way or the other who these guys really are.
Ruben
He had with him the selfsame rifle you see with him now, all mounted in german silver and the name that he\'d give it set with silver wire under the checkpiece in latin: Et In Arcadia Ego. Common enough for a man to name his gun. His is the first and only ever I seen with an inscription from the classics. - Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian
He had with him the selfsame rifle you see with him now, all mounted in german silver and the name that he\'d give it set with silver wire under the checkpiece in latin: Et In Arcadia Ego. Common enough for a man to name his gun. His is the first and only ever I seen with an inscription from the classics. - Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian
