Pilum Grip

[QVINTVS ARTORIVS CORVINVS]

Matt,

As a fellow Cannuck, where on earth did you find 2x2 in ash???
All I can find is softwood like pine.

I think I still have my Dad's old draw knife and assorted turn of the century hand tools... be a darned nice project.

Thanks,

Phillip

[Caius Fabius]

Slave,

Now that seems like a logical way to throw the Pilum.

Since I don't know this one... does anyone know how Olympians are trained to throw a javelin? Is it a similar fashion or standard grip?

Back in the previous century, when I was a track and field coach, the book to turn to was "The Dynamics of the Javelin Throw" by Dr Robert F. Sing (1984 Reynolds Publishing) ISBN 0914715038.

I am sure there is something newer out there. Page 36 shows the 'grip' and the method of throw is photographed throw the next few pages.

[Magnus]

Just a question for curiousity's sake...but was there something not working with the regular grip? Cuz i don't see how it can be more accurate?

The "regular grip" ??? Do we know what that is?

Because what you are suggesting isn't quite natural. The regular grip I refer to as used say in Olympic javelin throwing doesn't require anything but a round shaft to grab, which is a common trait of all types of pila.

Depictions in art also seem to support the "regular" grip idea.

Not to mention accuracy isn't all that important when throwing your javelins at a gigantic mass of screaming, crazy people intent on killing you.

[Magnus]

Matt,

As a fellow Cannuck, where on earth did you find 2x2 in ash???
All I can find is softwood like pine.

I think I still have my Dad's old draw knife and assorted turn of the century hand tools... be a darned nice project.

Thanks,

Phillip

Hey Phillip,

You'll have to go to a specialty lumber mill, not someplace like Home Depot or Home Hardware, but some place that deals only in cutting wood. Maybe even try some custom furniture stores.

[QVINTVS ARTORIVS CORVINVS]

Of course... so bloody obvious. I guess the old saying is true, about not seeing the forest for the trees :lol:

Thanks mate.

[Caesius Antonius]

G Antonius Retiarius is using a standing throw.

Another point of elegance with the Hispana grip is the ease of transition from the "carry" grip, i.e., thumb on the left of the shaft, fingers on the right, to the "casting" grip. One need only reposition one's index finger to the left side of the shaft (a very natural motion), cock, and cast.

I, for one, always find transitioning from the carry grip to the traditional javelin-style casting grip rather awkward. Performed one-handed, it feels like I risk dropping the pilum. Two-handed seems safer but no less awkward. Resting the butt on the ground and quick-changing grips, too. The Hispana grip, in contrast, seems very secure and fluid.

Lastly, the grip is so intuitive that even the tirones in the background of the photo, teenagers all at that acme of adolescent clumsiness, where even walking without accident seems to be a challenge and where transitioning grips from carry to javelin brought genuine risks of fratricide, were able to master the grip on the first try.

It might be farby, but it works quite well.

[Hibernicus]

Anyone try the Hispana Grip?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

No :oops: :oops:

[M. Demetrius]

transitioning from the carry grip to the traditional javelin-style casting grip rather awkward

There was another thread somewhere here that discussed the evidence for the pilum's being carried much lower on the shaft, with the butt spike resting in the hand. If that was the historical carry, it wouldn't really make much difference which way the shaft were held when throwing.

That carry grip opens a whole new caution/confusion about how to bring the pilum to rest at one's side without dropping the spike on the right foot...and I reckon that's something to consider. Looks like, one way or the other, going from carry to throw wasn't a one-step process.

[MariusCorneliusScipio]

Just a question for curiousity's sake...but was there something not working with the regular grip? Cuz i don't see how it can be more accurate?

The "regular grip" ??? Do we know what that is?

Because what you are suggesting isn't quite natural. The regular grip I refer to as used say in Olympic javelin throwing doesn't require anything but a round shaft to grab, which is a common trait of all types of pila.

Depictions in art also seem to support the "regular" grip idea.

Not to mention accuracy isn't all that important when throwing your javelins at a gigantic mass of screaming, crazy people intent on killing you.

Well,

This grip actually came very naturally to most of us experimenting with pilum throwing out here - the classical javelin grip was something we were having to train our probati to do correctly. At the risk of being flamed endlessly, unless the graphical representation was made by soldiers who used the particular weapon, it would seem suspect to me. Art, especially Classical Art, is about symmetry and aesthetics, not especially realistic depictions of human figures (that's we have so many hyperdeveloped male figures in Greek and Roman statuary). One thing tough - I agree accuracy is not that important when you've got 20,000 massed Iceni in front of you just begging for a pila shower... :lol: :lol: :lol: