Did Romans wear Corinthian style helmets too?

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

Here is a Russian medal of 1774, presenting count Rumjantsev wearing, as the description says, "Roman armor." It looks like the helmet might be a Corinthian one...In any case, based on this medal, we would not try to affirm that Russians ever wore that kind of armor, would we? :wink:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I wouldn't say either one was a corinthian, mate! An apullian/corinthian maybe! :wink:

[Caratacus]

I appreciate what you are saying there, Jim. After all, the helmet would be a bit useless if it were not a tight fit - it would be hell to wear it, much less use it in battle. But there's a difference between 'tight fit' and 'not enough room in there'!

I measured the distance back to front of the helmet and the same for the woman's face and one is smaller than the other (i.e. Athena's skull dimension is the larger of the two). I did give some allowance for the hair 'do' of the goddess. I suppose it will depend (remembering that this is a comparatively small picture) on where exactly you make the measurements. There is some 'wiggle room' elsewhere, but not much. In this particular case, I would say that if she tried to pull the helmet down, she would at the very least loose the tip of her nose in the process!

I think the point that I am making here is that it can be dangerous to make too many assumptions from sculture and carvings. The sculptor may be trying to make a very different comment than what we think we are looking at, if you see what I mean (groan!)

I agree, btw, with the comment made by Marcus (above) on the Russian medal, they are at the very least Apulo-Corinthian types - not in the least like a Corinthian, far too wide and they don't cover the face!

[Arthes]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned.
Pompeii is in an area of Italy, settled by the Greeks, this is why many of the frescoes depict scenes from Greek culture and history, and the well
known fresco of Alexander fighting Darius was found at the House of the Faun.
The Romans also copied Greek sculpture, as is known., so that cannot really be relied upon, unless actual finds from the period have been made.
PS: the Corinthian at the feet of Emperor Antonius Pius, I would say is a full Corinthian, look at the length of the nasal and sides compared with the Apulo Corinthian.
On closer inspection....is it supposed to be a severed head wearing the kranos.....?
Regards :wink:
Arthes

[Dan Diffendale]

for more info on the Apulo-Corinthian type, here's a (still-incomplete) list of exempla.
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~dpd/italica/apcor/apcor.html

[jc02005]

THe roman i think only copyed the carthigneian ships i never heard of copying their army helmets or armour

[jvrjenivs]

THe roman i think only copyed the carthigneian ships i never heard of copying their army helmets or armour

That's not true. The Lorica Hamata, Gladius, Gallic Helmets are all based on armor of their enimies.

[Dany Boy]

Greeting from Bulgaria!
This is one of my first posts in this wonderful forum which I find very interesting and useful!
I spend some time browsing around and I found so many interesting topics but this one really captured my attention!
Actually there is more then one topic I manage to find here
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Antonivs Marivs Congianocvs you’ve been very watchful! Thanks for sharing this inquiring with us!
I would like to share with you this wonderful piece of art! hock:
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This painting presents the very last battle of Spartacus and I really like it. :mrgreen:
But there are is something particular that I found very original and unusual at the same time!
To be more specific I am talking about the helmet of this centurion running to saber with his sword bareheaded Spartacus!
No doubt this version of early Republican-Roman helmet preset sensible Hellenic influence but at the same time the helmet can not be slip over the warrior’s face like the hoplite classic version.
The iron-metal reflection shining from this helmet is acceptable as many of helmets were treated by tin!
I am not very in to the subject about republican roman helmets but my brother is very fond of roman history and his answer was like this-Artifacts in museum’s collections can show us the best examples of the late republican helmets! So I’ve been wondering what I should think about this attractive looking republican helmet!
I haven’t seen the real artifact which can demonstrate the truth existence of exactly this kind of shape! Have you?
There are is one sculpture which preset exactly this kind of unusual Republic helmet but where the artifacts are or rather I haven’t seen one! ….similar like-Yes but not like exactly this one!
[attachment=0:183j6dap]<!-- ia0 Clipboard016.jpg<!-- ia0 [/attachment:183j6dap]

[Dany Boy]

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Again I would like to say how much I admire to this spectacular piece of art but this kind of republican helmet remain a mystification to me!
I will really appreciate if someone explains this.
I am sure I’ve seen somewhere photo of another one ancient sculpture :!:
Marble or stone I can’t say but since I recall in my memory that was ensemble of two roman soldiers with exactly the same helmets just can’t remember where I saw it! :oops: :oops:
Thank you

[Matthew Amt]

Ave, and welcome!

Yes, this is what we call the Apulo-Corinthian helmet. Actually, if you just go to page 1 of this discussion, you'll find this link:

http://www.freewebtown.com/italica/ital ... locor.html

Definitely a fascinating style!

Enjoy,

Matthew

[Rado]

Salvete omnes

This is a very interesting topic!
Apulo-Corinthian helmet, my brother sinks in to this subject surprisingly deep!
Of course no harm done but I if we take in to account that the Legion we are going establish in our town Dobrich is Legio IIII Scythica the old one (legio IIII Sorana) at the same time we are going to dedicate our club in Dobrich-Bulgaria to “Province Scythia Minor “
So I am wondering about that could we have in our re-enacting participations this type of early shaped Roman helmet!
I’ve browse too in books and internet for something that may in light us about how, where and when this Apulo-Corinthian helmet were used!

[Rado]

One of my internet pals from Italy we are chatting often, was very helpful to share this photo with me!
[attachment=1:1yyzok22]<!-- ia1 02.jpg<!-- ia1 [/attachment:1yyzok22]
We can see on the photo of Mr Luc Long an vey rare, interesting and unusual find!
This artifact has been find on the River Rhône bottom in Arles (France)

[Rado]

It is very unclear until when officers and tribunes had helmets with shape like this one!
I have had the chance to take a look at that wonderful book written by respectable author Mr. Ross Cowan- Imperial Roman legionary AD 161-284 and I can certainty recommended it to you.
Talking about this Apulo-Corinthian helmets one particularly photo of gravestone captured my attention.[attachment=1:1xvdh838]<!-- ia1 Clipboard01223.jpg<!-- ia1 [/attachment:1xvdh838]
The author explains very well the meaning of this scene which is restored on this low-relief sculpture.
At the same time he specifies the historical dates explaining that since Caracalla reign he established a new military look emerged of short-cropped hair and light beard.
But also he writes this was the predominant fashion of the 3rd century.
Caracalla also introduces a new ‘uniform’ of long-sleeved tunic and the heavy sagum cloak which fastened at the right shoulder.
The author comes to the conclusion about that the long-sleeved tunic is evident on military gravestones from the middle second century, and the use of the sagum probably spread to the infantry from the cavalry.
I am sure you will agree with me about that the helmet positioned between two figures over the shield looks very unusual!
And my guesses leading me to this Apulo-Corinthian helmet we are talking about and I’m surprised from the late date of this bas-relief restoration!

[Rado]

Alter of Domitius Ahenobarbus has a figure which carry similar helmet.
The author explains that not everyone could have helmet like this but just those which does prove themselves in battles or just being reach and important![attachment=1:czxfk9a7]<!-- ia1 Clipboard011.jpg<!-- ia1 [/attachment:czxfk9a7]
[attachment=0:czxfk9a7]<!-- ia0 Clipboard01af.jpg<!-- ia0 [/attachment:czxfk9a7]
Vale optime
Radostin Kolchev

[Dany Boy]

Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco
[attachment=3:11ia23zh]<!-- ia3 111PDHL107G.jpg<!-- ia3 [/attachment:11ia23zh]
This Apulo-Corinzio helmet looking great
That shape you’ve got is typical for not very extended versions we usually can see in museums!
I guess the smith has been inspired from some of this helmets he had the chance to look at.