07-29-2007, 12:27 AM
The answers to your questions are best found in Herodotus, readily available as a 'Penguin Classic'.
First, we should not distinguish so readily between 'spearmen' and 'archers'. H. tells us that "the persians... wore the tiara, or soft felt cap, embroidered tunic with sleeves, body-armour like the scales of a fish, and trousers; for arms they carried light wicker shields, quivers slung below them, short spears, powerful bows with cane arrows, and daggers (akinakes) swinging from belts beside the right thigh." - this is probably a description of the "Immortals"( who are similarly armed on Persian monuments) for elsewhere H. tells us that the Persians were unarmoured.
The picture we currently believe of how the Persian Infantry fought is that the leader of a file of ten carried a large wicker pavise, which protected the file from enemy archery, and was usually set up as a 'shield wall'. They then used massed archery from behind this, resorting to their short spears if the enemy closed. If depictions on greek pottery are anything to go by ( and they often are not when it comes to Asiatic garb, the potters working from descriptions, never having seen a Persian) it is possible that the rear ranks may have been spear-less, but if so we don't know how many.
H. also tells us why the Spartans were so successful against the Persians (referring to Plataea) "...in courage and strength they were as good as their (spartan) adversaries, but they were deficient in armour, untrained ( in close order hand-to-hand fighting) and greatly inferior in skill.Sometimes singly, sometimes in groups of ten men-perhaps fewer, perhaps more - they fell upon the Spartan line and were cut down."
"...while Mardonius (the Persian commander, commanding a personal guard of 1,000 - probably Immortals) was still alive, they continued to resist and to defend themselves, and struck down many of the Lacedaemonians; but after his death and the destruction of his personal guard - the finest of the Persian troops- the remainder....took flight."
"The chief cause of their discomforture was their lack of armour, (i.e. Hoplite panoply) fighting without it against heavily armed infantry" (hoplites)
At Thermopylae H. tells us :-
"On the Spartan side it was a memorable fight; they were men who understood war pitted against an inexperienced enemy, and amongst the feints they employed was to turn their backs on a body, and pretend to be retreating in confusion, whereupon the enemy would pursue them with a great clatter and roar; but the Spartans, just as the Persians were on them, would wheel and face them and inflict in the new struggle innumerable casualties ( this was probably done by a simple about-turn, and must have involved the whole greek line - the Spartan contingent occupying a front of no more than 50 yds). The Spartans had their losses too, but not many." (H. calls the army'spartan' because its commander - Leonidas, then aged in his sixties - and leading contingent were spartan ).
The pass was evidently too narrow for the entire Greek force -less the thousand Phocians - to deploy at once ( the 4,500 would form a line roughly 750 yards long) , for H. says that each division of the army took its turn in the line.
Does that give you something to go on, Brazelton ?
First, we should not distinguish so readily between 'spearmen' and 'archers'. H. tells us that "the persians... wore the tiara, or soft felt cap, embroidered tunic with sleeves, body-armour like the scales of a fish, and trousers; for arms they carried light wicker shields, quivers slung below them, short spears, powerful bows with cane arrows, and daggers (akinakes) swinging from belts beside the right thigh." - this is probably a description of the "Immortals"( who are similarly armed on Persian monuments) for elsewhere H. tells us that the Persians were unarmoured.
The picture we currently believe of how the Persian Infantry fought is that the leader of a file of ten carried a large wicker pavise, which protected the file from enemy archery, and was usually set up as a 'shield wall'. They then used massed archery from behind this, resorting to their short spears if the enemy closed. If depictions on greek pottery are anything to go by ( and they often are not when it comes to Asiatic garb, the potters working from descriptions, never having seen a Persian) it is possible that the rear ranks may have been spear-less, but if so we don't know how many.
H. also tells us why the Spartans were so successful against the Persians (referring to Plataea) "...in courage and strength they were as good as their (spartan) adversaries, but they were deficient in armour, untrained ( in close order hand-to-hand fighting) and greatly inferior in skill.Sometimes singly, sometimes in groups of ten men-perhaps fewer, perhaps more - they fell upon the Spartan line and were cut down."
"...while Mardonius (the Persian commander, commanding a personal guard of 1,000 - probably Immortals) was still alive, they continued to resist and to defend themselves, and struck down many of the Lacedaemonians; but after his death and the destruction of his personal guard - the finest of the Persian troops- the remainder....took flight."
"The chief cause of their discomforture was their lack of armour, (i.e. Hoplite panoply) fighting without it against heavily armed infantry" (hoplites)
At Thermopylae H. tells us :-
"On the Spartan side it was a memorable fight; they were men who understood war pitted against an inexperienced enemy, and amongst the feints they employed was to turn their backs on a body, and pretend to be retreating in confusion, whereupon the enemy would pursue them with a great clatter and roar; but the Spartans, just as the Persians were on them, would wheel and face them and inflict in the new struggle innumerable casualties ( this was probably done by a simple about-turn, and must have involved the whole greek line - the Spartan contingent occupying a front of no more than 50 yds). The Spartans had their losses too, but not many." (H. calls the army'spartan' because its commander - Leonidas, then aged in his sixties - and leading contingent were spartan ).
The pass was evidently too narrow for the entire Greek force -less the thousand Phocians - to deploy at once ( the 4,500 would form a line roughly 750 yards long) , for H. says that each division of the army took its turn in the line.
Does that give you something to go on, Brazelton ?
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
