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Calling all armchair generals! Boudica's Last Stand.
(10-28-2019, 12:00 PM)John1 Wrote: why is it Academics don't engage in this sort of research?... the finding of Brunanburh was down to Wirral Archaeology an amateur group

Perhaps because the chances of a definite 'find' are so very slim? As we've discussed, there's not much likelihood that this battle site, were it located, would yield anything like certain evidence; this would be a place within settled Romanised territory, probably on or close to a road used for centuries and more or less 'picked clean'. Beyond (maybe) a few lost hobnails and some stray arrow heads or bits of armour, and (very maybe) some sort of bone or ash deposit, any site would have to remain 'possible' at best.

Most battlefield identifications (in the UK) seem to rely on amateur groups, or local societies. They have the time, I suppose, and they're close to the area? I keep meaning to try and contact the Berkhamsted & District Archaeological Society, who did the Tring/Cow Roast excavations, and see if any of the finds are still kept somewhere, although since the last dig was in the 70s or 80s I doubt I'd have much luck!

Unless a battle site offered up paradigm-shifting amounts of material evidence, or caused us to rewrite our understanding of the historical narrative (which this one - unless it turned out to be in northern Britain, or Wales, or something, would not!) then the actual geographical location would be of no more interest to an academic historian than to the average armchair enthusiast.


(10-28-2019, 12:00 PM)John1 Wrote: where's the fun and self actualisation in that?

Most academics these days seem to get their kicks from denouncing people and cancelling each other on Twitter!
Nathan Ross
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"there's not much likelihood that this battle site, were it located, would yield anything like certain evidence;" that wasn't Hingleys position on "In Our Time" he seemed to think there was a good chance of lots of evidence. @ 21:50 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b00r7lr9 & the German sites have yielded evidence as his precedent.

"Most academics these days seem to get their kicks from denouncing people" It seems scepticism is an overplayed position in Academia at the expense of actually getting stuff done. Her story is generating populist films, books, tv & radio shows, magazine articles every year, so it should be a marketable commodity I want to see more bottle from our academics but hopefully I won't and I'll get some hobnails instead, must video it though......
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(10-28-2019, 12:57 PM)John1 Wrote: Hingleys position on "In Our Time" he seemed to think there was a good chance of lots of evidence.

Oh yes, I forgot he was on that. Oh well, I would indeed expect to see him out there with his trowel then! I suppose writing fluff for Nat Geo pays the bills, meanwhile...
Nathan Ross
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Has anyone read this one yet? Does it go for a site? Or discuss the search for the site?

https://www.english.cam.ac.uk/spenseronl...m/45.1.10/

I am guessing this is a taster;
https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bits...sequence=2

478,727
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My guess is that the book is the publication of the thesis. The emphasis seems to be entirely literary, so I doubt very much whether there is any discussion of the battle site.
Michael King Macdona

And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
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(11-05-2019, 12:21 PM)Renatus Wrote: The emphasis seems to be entirely literary, so I doubt very much whether there is any discussion of the battle site.

Yes, it's a survey of 16th-17th century historiography. Here's what appears to be the only description of the actual battle, from Google Books:

   

There's at least one mention in the book of the prospective site at Battle Bridge (King's Cross), but the discussion is about what later writers made of it, not what 'actually' happened.

But it's interesting all the same, even to read the review. One day perhaps our 'literalist' historical interpretation of the evidence might be considered as quaint and romantic as those Elizabethans who imagined the whole campaign had taken place in Scotland!...
Nathan Ross
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Mancetter is really going for broke with the opening of the "Mancetter Roman and Boudica Heritage Centre"

   

https://www.facebook.com/RomanMancetter/

483944
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(12-04-2019, 10:06 PM)John1 Wrote: Mancetter is really going for broke

Oh my Gaad - can nobody stop them?

Mind you, going by the pictures they're using in their ads and promotions I don't think accuracy or even history are at the forefront of their agenda, exactly... [Image: wink.png]
Nathan Ross
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Nathan Ross Wrote:
John1 Wrote:Mancetter is really going for broke

Oh my Gaad - can nobody stop them?

Mind you, going by the pictures they're using in their ads and promotions I don't think accuracy or even history are at the forefront of their agenda, exactly... [Image: wink.png]

My thoughts exactly.
Michael King Macdona

And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
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I left a few remarks about the abysmally bad images on their FB page.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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(02-21-2016, 02:43 PM)Nathan Ross Wrote: Hmm, looks like something there - but it's not too clear. A camp for ten thousand men would need an enclosure of at least 150,000 square metres (15 hectares), I reckon... The springs of the Bulbourne are very close to that position though. And (if it means anything), the orientation of those crop mark lines seems to relate closely to the orientation of Newground Road, albeit there's 1.7 miles between them...

Hi - I came across this thread while Googling about Roman remains on the Bulbourne. Have any of you looked at the ChilternBeacons LiDAR - now available at https://chilternsbeacons.org/wp/ ? I am researching the Bulbourne area on it, I have read some of your messages and thought that you might find extra evidence in the new LiDAR. Thanks!
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(12-20-2019, 08:39 PM)GardenG Wrote:
(02-21-2016, 02:43 PM)Nathan Ross Wrote: Hmm, looks like something there - but it's not too clear. A camp for ten thousand men would need an enclosure of at least 150,000 square metres (15 hectares), I reckon... The springs of the Bulbourne are very close to that position though. And (if it means anything), the orientation of those crop mark lines seems to relate closely to the orientation of Newground Road, albeit there's 1.7 miles between them...

Hi - I came across this thread while Googling about Roman remains on the Bulbourne. Have any of you looked at the ChilternBeacons LiDAR - now available at https://chilternsbeacons.org/wp/ ? I am researching the Bulbourne area on it, I have read some of your messages and thought that you might find extra evidence in the new LiDAR. Thanks!
 Thank you for the notification. Just joined your group and have asked on the Help forum if the raw lidar data, or processed heightings grids, can be downloaded for further processing. Will report back.

Regards, Steve Kaye
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(12-22-2019, 11:48 AM)Steve Kaye Wrote:
(12-20-2019, 08:39 PM)GardenG Wrote: Hi - I came across this thread while Googling about Roman remains on the Bulbourne. Have any of you looked at the ChilternBeacons LiDAR - now available at https://chilternsbeacons.org/wp/ ? I am researching the Bulbourne area on it, I have read some of your messages and thought that you might find extra evidence in the new LiDAR. Thanks!
 
Thank you for the notification. Just joined your group and have asked on the Help forum if the raw lidar data, or processed heightings grids, can be downloaded for further processing. Will report back.

Thanks, both of you - yes, please do let us know if you discover anything more!
Nathan Ross
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Hi
I live very close to the site, on the Bulbourne itself. There are Roman remains all around the area, another square Roman temple just north of Berkhamsted castle that can be seen quite clearly; I've even found Roman pottery in my garden.

We are not allowed to post images from the LiDAR, but once you log in you can see clear results. The project is about to enter the review stage, after that new findings will be displayed, at present you can only see your own records. But it is fascinating, I can already see what I think are traces of Roman roads and tracks.

Here is a visualisation of Ivinghoe Beacon that the project team have done https://t.co/uUpwOD7ub8?amp=1. I have also seen profiles through Cholesbury hillfort that they have done, I'll post it when I find it. I don't think that we users can do that at present

I am very happy to visit any local site that shows interesting features on the LiDAR to see if anything is visible on the ground. I'm sure there's a lot of the area's history that will be revealed - I've just found a deserted medieval village at Pendley , near New Ground.

Also I have heard of a broken sword and torc being found at Bulbourne when the canal was being built, has anyone else heard of that?
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(12-22-2019, 11:48 AM)Steve Kaye Wrote:
(12-20-2019, 08:39 PM)GardenG Wrote:
(02-21-2016, 02:43 PM)Nathan Ross Wrote: Hmm, looks like something there - but it's not too clear. A camp for ten thousand men would need an enclosure of at least 150,000 square metres (15 hectares), I reckon... The springs of the Bulbourne are very close to that position though. And (if it means anything), the orientation of those crop mark lines seems to relate closely to the orientation of Newground Road, albeit there's 1.7 miles between them...

Hi - I came across this thread while Googling about Roman remains on the Bulbourne. Have any of you looked at the ChilternBeacons LiDAR - now available at https://chilternsbeacons.org/wp/ ? I am researching the Bulbourne area on it, I have read some of your messages and thought that you might find extra evidence in the new LiDAR. Thanks!
 Thank you for the notification. Just joined your group and have asked on the Help forum if the raw lidar data, or processed heightings grids, can be downloaded for further processing. Will report back.

Regards, Steve Kaye
 
Said I'd report back. Just heard that the lidar points and DTM, DSM grids will be made freely available 'late 2021'. I'll take a look then but this should be after the group has reported on what it has already found. Regards, Steve Kaye
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