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Late Roman Shoulder Pauldrons
#31
(11-16-2015, 10:02 PM)Dan Howard Wrote: Who says that this is a shoulder guard?

From what I gather from Dr Stiebel's talk (from which I took the image - I'd never seen it before either!) this item was actually found in situ on a Roman body, or the remains of one. Presumably somewhere around the shoulder... (Stiebel himself called it a shoulder guard, btw)

It's very hard to tell from the picture how dished it might be - quite shallow, it seems - and how those holes would work (some sort of very thick fabric or leather edging, perhaps?) I'm also not sure how big it is!

But since (if it were inverted...) it would at least resemble the sort of half-moon pauldron thing discussed here, it seemed worth sharing. Perhaps others know more about it?
Nathan Ross
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#32
Photo 
I am fully aware of the archaizing nature of the depictions of roman soldiers in statues etc., but I don`t think artists invented completely new gear. This picture (attachment by Graham Sumner earlier in this thread) shows in my opinion clearly some kind of decorated pauldrons being worn with lorica musculata. What do you think?


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Virilis / Jyrki Halme
PHILODOX
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[Image: fectio.png]
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#33
(11-17-2015, 12:09 PM)Virilis Wrote: I am fully aware of the archaizing nature of the depictions of roman soldiers in statues etc., but I don`t think artists invented completely new gear. This picture (attachment by Graham Sumner earlier in this thread) shows in my opinion clearly some kind of decorated pauldrons being worn with lorica musculata. What do you think?

Apologies for pouring water into your wine but the picture is from a 15th century relief showing the martyrdom of St. Paul. you can find the whole relief shown here:

http://www.acatolica.com/2013/01/e-o-vat...e-nos.html


Neither is the find from Gamla really helpful als Stiebel - reasonably - reconstructs it as part of a manica, not a cuirass shoulder guard (which would not have fitted anyway as the soldier was wearing a segmentata). The complete publication is available online  at academia.edu here:

http://www.academia.edu/6331895/_The_Mil...hapter_14_

However, personally, I find the mosaics shown and may other depictions in late Roman / Byzantine art quite convincing evidence that pauldrons of the type reconstructed may have existed.
Regards,


Jens Horstkotte
Munich, Germany
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#34
Thanks Jens! I stand corrected. Wink
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
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#35
(11-17-2015, 01:58 PM)jho Wrote: Neither is the find from Gamla really helpful als Stiebel - reasonably - reconstructs it as part of a manica, not a cuirass shoulder guard (which would not have fitted anyway as the soldier was wearing a segmentata). The complete publication is available online  at academia.edu here:

http://www.academia.edu/6331895/_The_Mil...hapter_14_

Is this reference correct?  I see nothing about armour in it.  It seems to be concerned entirely with archery and artillery equipment.
Michael King Macdona

And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
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#36
(11-17-2015, 02:22 PM)Renatus Wrote:
(11-17-2015, 01:58 PM)jho Wrote: Neither is the find from Gamla really helpful als Stiebel - reasonably - reconstructs it as part of a manica, not a cuirass shoulder guard (which would not have fitted anyway as the soldier was wearing a segmentata). The complete publication is available online  at academia.edu here:

http://www.academia.edu/6331895/_The_Mil...hapter_14_

Is this reference correct?  I see nothing about armour in it.  It seems to be concerned entirely with archery and artillery equipment.

Apologies, this should be the correct one:

https://www.academia.edu/11320285/_Chapt...pp._57-108
Regards,


Jens Horstkotte
Munich, Germany
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#37
(11-17-2015, 01:58 PM)jho Wrote: Stiebel - reasonably - reconstructs it as part of a manica, not a cuirass shoulder guard

Hehe - I knew that was too good to be true! [Image: wink.png]

Thanks Jens - I was rather unsure about whether the body concerned was the same one that was wearing the segmentata...
Nathan Ross
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#38
It isn't part of a manica either. It is too big and the holes are wrong. That plate isn't a piece of armour for a human.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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