Horse hair coloring

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

So they no longer pay in denari, I take it Edge?

Monkey see, monkey do.... you pay peanunts, you get ...

anyway, ahhhh beets would turn out purple I imagine... :? )

[Gaius_Calvus]

Nope -- even if they did, nobody would take them. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Magnus]

Probably too magenta-purplish for senatorial things eh?

[Marcus Mummius]

I agree that noone who does this hobby looks physicaly like a real Roman. This is of course almost impossible.

Dead easy. Just insult someone's mother.

I distinctly said noone doing this hobby :lol:

I know there are some real 'look-a-likes' ou there but I've never seen one in an authentic Roman kit

[Marcus Mummius]

BTW - anyone ever used regular beets (the kind you eat) to dye anything with?

Using beets isn't a very good idea (regardles of the colour you desire). A lady, who is a professional dyer (natural dyes), once told me that beets and berry's can be used to dye but that the colour has a terrible light fastness. It will almost completely fade away after a year or two of use...

I also have some seeds here for the madder plant, I wonder if it's hard to grow?

It will take a few years to grow a plant that has roots that are well enough developed to use for dyeing. Better grow pot and sell it and use the money to buy madder

I think it'd be pretty hard based on what we have for evidence to confirm what shades of red they used on crests....aside from knowing what types of dye they used. What other red dyes were available to them?

The thing is, every time I dyed something with madder I get a different shade. It would probably have been the same in Roman times. Also you can use a dyebath several times. But these next times you'll get a lighter shade. Perhaps there were different prices for different colour intensity? So much denarii for 'first bath', so much for 'second'

I got very good results with cold dyeing with madder. Last year when we had a heat wave I put a basin with madder in our insulated greenhouse it reached a temperature of 55°C inside, so this was probably not cold dyeing. But just at 30°C worked good too.

After putting your hands in a madder dyebath the hairs on your hands are dyed red too. But of course youcan wash it off. I'd suggest using alunm as mordant on the horsehair before dyeing it.

In a few weeks I'll start experimenting with the hair and have some exact results to share.

I'm glad you're considering using madder Matt! It can't be to expensive to get for you, I believe.

As for other dyestuff to dye red. Well I don't know if cochineal would have been available to the Romans. I thought it came from Southern America to Europe in the 16th century... But in Europe 'kermes' was used. It gives a colour very much like cochineal but is a lot weaker. You have to use a lot more of it to get the same colour intensity. Madder certainly was A LOT cheaper than kermes.

[Hibernicus]

Credit for this one goes to Vitruvius of LEG IX:

You've heard of the hair color product for men:

Just For Men

How about this instead:

JUST FOR CENTURIO

[Matthew Amt]

Oh, yes, a mordant is essential for most any natural dye, to keep it from running or fading. The mordant fixes the dye in the material. Alum is (and was) common, I think it's used for making pickles. Iron will also work--just dyeing something in a rusty iron pot is sufficient, though it gives "muddier" shades. Otherwise, I think it is typical to soak the material in a mordant bath first, then into the dye.

Madder is very sensitive to temperature and mordant. Variations will vary the color you get. If you boil it, it goes brown, so don't let it get too hot (if you are cooking it on a stove or over a fire). The ancients would have been very experienced and therefore more consistent in the colors they got, though there still would have been some variation. (Of course, for clothing they would usually dye either the yarn or the unspun wool, allowing finished garments to be much more consistent.)

My guess is that a centurion's crest would be the more expensive dye. So we're back to Ritberries! Right, cochineal is New World, but I believe kermes is the same basic chemical and its use goes back to the Stone Age.

OK, Matt -- you going to change the standards on your website

Not today!! My Bronze Age scale armor is calling me.

Matthew

[Hibernicus]

Madder dye source

http://griffindyeworks.com/kits/redkit.html

Bjo Trimble, owner.... SCAer and so much more.

A 1lb madder dying kit includes all the products you need to dye with madder

$18USD

[Gaius_Calvus]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks, Brother. Wherever you go, I follow.

Edge

[Tarbicus]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Thanks, Brother. Wherever you go, I follow.

Edge

Hib, make sure he's not looking when you go to the loo.

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

Since we're talking about natural dyes what about henna? It was used by the Egyptians and probably known to the Romans. You sure as heck can get a red color from that. (inexpensive and readily available at beauty supply stores).

[Gaius_Calvus]

Sorry, Jim -- I was replying to Matt Amt's post.

[Tarbicus]

Blinkin' 'eck, Edge, that's two of them. Is no-one safe?
:wink:

Henna - what a cracking idea!

[Gaius_Calvus]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

ROFLMAO.

You slay me, Brother.

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

Thanks,Tarbicus.
I thought that went unnoticed.