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Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
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You're welcome, but I'm not sure what I did.
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John Abbate
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I think he meant this John! :lol: :wink:
John Baker
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Oh alright.
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John Abbate
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It gets confusing if there's people with the same name on the same thread at the same time.
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John Abbate
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Did the Byzantine flamethrower boast a continuous or interrupted stream of flame?
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
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I seem to recall a manuscript showing a Galley using it's Greek fire against a foe....a continuous stream is depicted ( which was presumably of a few seconds duration), like modern flamethrowers......
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
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Thanks Robert !
That's the very one I had in mind....I just didn't have time to go through my library at the moment......
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
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Quote:I seem to recall a manuscript showing a Galley using it's Greek fire against a foe....a continuous stream is depicted ( which was presumably of a few seconds duration), like modern flamethrowers......
I have no idea about modern flamethrowers...cant they boast a continuous flame until being empty? I was asking because I stumbled over this claim:
Quote:Flamethrower, double piston: Although the single piston flamethrower was first developed in the Byzantine Empire during the 7th century, the 10th century Chinese flamethrower, or Pen Huo Qi, boasted a continuous stream of flame by employing double piston syringes (which had been known since the Han Dynasty) spouting Greek fire which had been imported from China's maritime trade contacts in the Middle East
The author makes it look like the Byzantine "single piston" version was not capable of a continuous flame. True or not?
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
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I'm really not sure.
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John Abbate
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The Byzantine model was able (as far as we can tell with modern reconstructions, etc.) to produce a constant stream as long as the pressure held, just as the Chinese model.
John Baker
Justice is the constant and perpetual wish to render to every one his due.
- Institutes, bk. I, ch. I, para. I
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Quote:The Byzantine model was able (as far as we can tell with modern reconstructions, etc.) to produce a constant stream as long as the pressure held, just as the Chinese model.
Could you be so kind and point me to a quotable (print) source? Because I found out that the double piston system was invented by Ctesibios even earlier than in China, but I could not found any authority on Greek fire (other than Landes) who made an explicit connection with the Byzantine flame thrower, that is who surmised the use of the double acting principle in the war device.
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
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I can indeed do that:
J.R. Partington, "A History of Greek Fire and Gunpowder"
Alex Roland, "Secrecy, Technology, and War: Greek Fire and the Defense of Byzantium"
Nicholas Cheronis, "Chemical Warfare in the Middle Ages: Kallinikos' "Prepared Fire'"
John Haldon, "Warfare, State and Society in the Byzantine World 565-1204"
Additionally, the primary sources, though a bit sketchy, are worth a good skimming for this topic. Look at the Alexiad, the Chronicle of Theophanes, and any military manual you can get your hands on (interlibrary loan).
John Baker
Justice is the constant and perpetual wish to render to every one his due.
- Institutes, bk. I, ch. I, para. I