Kaidas misconception

[Tarbicus]

I wasn't judging at all. But the fact remains that, although not killed outright by being dropped into a chasm, sickly babies were left in the open to see if they survived, and if they did they usually became slaves, no?

Glossing over and ignoring the "negative" (I use that word for want of a more appropriate one) history is just as much fantasy and disdainful.

[ambrosius]

Well, I guess that early Roman society was no different to Spartan
society in the way that unwanted/undesirable infants were disposed
of (Roman extra-mural rubbish dumps were used, I believe).

I guess that the act of exposing an infant of suspected survivability
was also a means of testing whether or not they actually stood a
chance of reaching adulthood. That would then determine if the
parents/adoptive parents should spend their resources attempting
to rear the child, or if they might actually be wasting their time,
anyway. Harsh, but practical. After all - and in the context of the
current movie '300' - the biggest killer in antiquity wasn't actually
Persian arrows or Spartan spears, but neonatal disease. Half of all
infants born never made it to adulthood due to infection... hock:

If either Persians or Spartans had ever slaughtered on that scale,
they would have been even more formidable killers... :wink:

Ambrosius / Mike

[Hoplitesmores]

The fact remains that they should have mentioned "apothetes".
"kaiadas" is for criminals mostly and those of Miasma.

The only ones this LIE would make happy( saying that infants were thrown in kaiadas is hitler and his kind).

You think perhaps in Laconia the guide should lie because every documentary movie and book thinks that kaiadas was a "dumpster" for infants? University proffesors and whoever else is responsible for these things should come back into order.We are not going to change history because of intentional or unintetional mistakes that border on propaganda. And this applies to all historical issues not just kaiadas or Ancient Greece.

[Hoplitesmores]

we live on 2007 when is proper history going to be taught and projected for the media 3000 ad?

[Tarbicus]

The fact remains that they should have mentioned "apothetes".
"kaiadas" is for criminals mostly and those of Miasma.

The only ones this LIE would make happy( saying that infants were thrown in kaiadas is hitler and his kind).

You think perhaps in Laconia the guide should lie because every documentary movie and book thinks that kaiadas was a "dumpster" for infants? University proffesors and whoever else is responsible for these things should come back into order.We are not going to change history because of intentional or unintetional mistakes that border on propaganda. And this applies to all historical issues not just kaiadas or Ancient Greece.

I think you're getting the wrong end of the stick. Nobody here is saying you're wrong to point out the terms and locations, and therefore implications shouldn't be corrected. They should.

But, it seems more a case of the authors getting wrong, rather than malice being involved. It would be good of you to point out the historical sources that show this, even if only so I can put my mates straight on such things after we've been to see 300 later this week. :wink: I've already told them the proper meaning of "molon lave" which might cause a chuckle amongst us when Leonidas cries out the challenge :wink: :twisted:

[Hoplitesmores]

Plutarch Life of Lycurgus
Chapter 16 line 1 section 1

Dont forget Agesilaus was lame at birth and he was one of the best

among other references

And also the fact that nowhere is written that they threw them in
kaiadas

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

I've already told them the proper meaning of "molon lave" which might cause a chuckle amongst us when Leonidas cries out the challenge :wink: :twisted:

Can somebody please post a link to the thread this is explained?I know it's somewhere in the Greek section but I could not find it.Thanks

[Tarbicus]

http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... 8&start=40

[Hoplitesmores]

He answered.

Dear Hoplites,

You're absolutely right. It's too bad, isn't it? When I was in Sparta
a
couple of years ago, there were several tour buses lined up in front of
one
of the hotels. Someone told me the only thing they wanted to see of
ancient
Sparta was the Kaiadas. I guess the "throwing babies over" idea is
just too
sensational to resist. I agree with you that it, and many other
misconceptions, continute to pain the Spartans as brutal, militaristic
thugs. One of the reasons I wrote "Gates" was to try to even out that
perception with a little humor and humanity.

Thanks for writing!

All my best,
Steven Pressfield

[floofthegoof]

Interesting. I wonder what the pit was called which Leonidas kicks the
Persian ambassador into in '300' - if such a thing was even real? 8)

Ambrosius / Mike

Actually, before the battle of Marathon, many years before Thermopylae, Darius sent an emissary to demand earth and water from the greeks. The Athenians rejected this demand, but the Spartans complied by throwing the emissary down a well. :twisted:

I believe this was the event that inspired this scene in 300. So that thing was supposed to be a well, even though it didn't really look like a well.

[Zenodoros]

Good to see Pressfields reply, but it's a pity, it seemed that he and the other scholars were more-or-less forced to say the fantasy, as opposed to the fact - in the documentary.

Also, I would be curious to know whether the real translation of 'Molon Lave' is really, how we say, explicit. :lol:

[hoplite14gr]

Good to see Pressfields reply, but it's a pity, it seemed that he and the other scholars were more-or-less forced to say the fantasy, as opposed to the fact - in the documentary.

Also, I would be curious to know whether the real translation of 'Molon Lave' is really, how we say, explicit. :lol:

http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... molon+lave
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewforum.php?f=19

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

He answered.

Dear Hoplites,

You're absolutely right. It's too bad, isn't it? When I was in Sparta
a
couple of years ago, there were several tour buses lined up in front of
one
of the hotels. Someone told me the only thing they wanted to see of
ancient
Sparta was the Kaiadas. I guess the "throwing babies over" idea is
just too
sensational to resist. I agree with you that it, and many other
misconceptions, continute to pain the Spartans as brutal, militaristic
thugs. One of the reasons I wrote "Gates" was to try to even out that
perception with a little humor and humanity.

Thanks for writing!

All my best,
Steven Pressfield

That is what I got from the book, which re-kindled my interest in my ancient ancestery!

[ambrosius]

Actually, before the battle of Marathon, many years before Thermopylae, Darius sent an emissary to demand earth and water from the greeks. The Athenians rejected this demand, but the Spartans complied by throwing the emissary down a well. :twisted:

I believe this was the event that inspired this scene in 300.

That sounds almost identical to the scene in the movie, yes. 8)

So that thing was supposed to be a well, even though it didn't really look like a well.

hock: I sure hope they never intended drinking from it again... :lol:

Ambrosius/Mike


[/quote]

[Arthes]

So that thing was supposed to be a well, even though it didn't really look like a well.

hock: I sure hope they never intended drinking from it again... :lol:
Ambrosius/Mike

No wonder the black broth tasted awful...... :lol: :lol: