Hoplon ancient method of construction

[spyros]

Truly. But we have to start from somewhere

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Spyro,From Connoly's painting-and if we accept he has examined the shield in such detaid and passed it to the paper-we can be sure about his opinion on wich method was used.Looking at the grain of the wood we could be sure the planks where shaped and not steamed.In addition,also from his painting we can tell how big the planks were,as they are cracked in the spot they were connected.Also in Secunda's "The Greek Hoplite" p50 you see the size of the planks.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/megistias ... 79ba?i=314

The only photo of the Batican shield I know of,In the Hoplites Mores forum.

[hoplite14gr]

I am of the opinion that the only common thing in shields was the bronze facing. A shield with heavy oak planks would give an advantage to othismos.
The question is where there ALL shields made the same way?
Is there any proof except the "Vatican shield" that the materials behind the the bronze facing were ONLY wooden planks?

Most texts say "aspides" or "oplon". No treatish on wepon construction made it to our times.
Homer describes shields from hide/leather layers.
Give me reasons why a shield with a combination of hide and cork or wickerwork or just 20 linen layers would be impropable.

Kind regards

[Idomeneas]

well i dont know how much pressure a linen/leather construction can withstand. I can guess that it wont do the work as the wooden thing. I understand that hoplon should have a rather complicate construction achieved only by specialized personel. Slaves in ancient greek were basically the equivalent of what most of us are today. Employees :lol: . We know it was expensive as a small car can be expensive for a working man without payments.
If somebody could xray the Vatican sample would be great. I mean the have the damn thing sitting right there dont they have the same questions as we do? :roll:

[spyros]

Spyro,From Connoly's painting-and if we accept he has examined the shield in such detaid and passed it to the paper-we can be sure about his opinion on wich method was used.Looking at the grain of the wood we could be sure the planks where shaped and not steamed.In addition,also from his painting we can tell how big the planks were,as they are cracked in the spot they were connected.Also in Secunda's "The Greek Hoplite" p50 you see the size of the planks.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/megistias ... 79ba?i=314

The only photo of the Batican shield I know of,In the Hoplites Mores forum.

Aha, there you go (thick greek accent).
By they way, I was talking to a carpenter the other day. He is a member of Greek ARMA. and he is willing to give it a try, first cutting then gluing and finally shaping an aspis.

Any ideas about dimensions?

[Idomeneas]

i think that an ''elbow''+the rim will do the trick. The shield is from neck to thighs and if you stand up with your fist closed and add the distance for the rim i think you have the radius. From pictures i ve seen the reconstructions vary from smaller ones to huge ones that look like baking tin :lol: im more for the middle solution. I believe if we study basic anatomy we will understand many things. The hand to elbow distance its bigger than the elbow-shoulder so adding the rim the shield will nest comfortably to the shoulder

[zugislander]

32 inches to 40 inches.. Generally, the bigger the more oval, but the oval is never more than a couple of inches off round. The oval was the north-south axis.

Cordially,

Michael

[spyros]

Ok thank you both, but I meant the sizes of the staves :oops:

[zugislander]

If memory serves estimates ranged from 4 to 6 inches depending on size of shield.

Cordially,

Michael

[spyros]

Ok, about the bronze wrinkles….. I had a talk a few minutes ago with a friend of mine. He is an aircraft machinist, so probably he knew what he was talking about, but has anyone tried to “stretch” the bronze in order to get rid of the wrinkles?

Imagine that you iron the sleeve of the cover. I’m sorry I can’t describe it better. :oops:

He was not almost certain that it would work. It would leave one with more excess material and also on the reserve the thickness of the metal would be less but it might worth considering it as a theory

[Craig Gascoigne]

We have member in the Sydney Ancients who will be producing greek sheild after easter for sale.
Should have price after Easter.

[Anonymous]

Nice work!

[Peter Raftos]

Spyros,
"Stretching the bronze" would be the exact effect you would get if the bronze was spun directly onto the shield face.
However, the big problem in the modern world seems to be getting bronze at the required "thinness". Craig Sitch of Manning Imperial tried hunting down commercially available bronze all over the planet but the sheets are:

1) the right thickness for spinning but not large enough to cover the shield face or
2) they are large enough to cover the shield face but far too thick to spin effectively

In the end he used sheet brass.

Some info on metal spinning
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_spinning
http://www.metalspinningworkshop.com/MovieClipTwo.html ( A nice pilos helmet could be made this way)
Imagine a shield shape in this diagram as the spun part form/mandrell
http://www.engineersedge.com/manufactur ... -metal.htm

[spyros]

Ok.... I'll have to go and lay down for now. Peter you are a fountain of info. Thank you

[Comerus Gallus]

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