Late Roman female fashions

[Barbara]

Thank you, Graham, for the list.

the most of them are well known to me, but the two after 2000 are new to me. Maybe that I wasn't able to find them in our University Library because our Institute has not that much money to spend on books like it had before... Thanks to the german education system! :evil:

To add some for those who are interested in some nice pictures:

Grabar, André, "The Beginnings of Christian Art", London 1967
Borda, Maurizio, "La pittura Romana", Milano 1958
Schade, Kathrin: "Frauen in der Spätantike - Status und Repräsentation", Mainz 2003
Paolucci, Antonio: "Ravenna", Firenze 1983 (important pictures)
Mancinelli, Fabrizio:"Römische Katakomben", Firenze 1987 (important pictures, too)

The only book that really refers to late roman womens fashion is the one from Kathrin Schade, but the chapter is very short. :?

For so long,

[GALLA PLACIDIA]

Thanks a lot Graham!!!
I will buy these books, they are very good!
I have found in the web some photos of the book ' Au Fil du Nil '; Musee Dobree, 2001. :




It s a fantastic exhibition!
http://www.culture.cg44.fr/Musee/expos/ ... ndex.html#
Here can you see all the fantastic pictures.

[GALLA PLACIDIA]

Hi Barbara!!!

Thanks for your opinion, is Very importantly for my!! , yes I think that the dress, is too late. But, up today, i have a little information about late imperial dress. And you know that is not very cheap to make!!! jejejeje!!

It s true!, my court sames "priestesses", i need an other type of dress to cover her heads.
But, when you says:
"What can be seen on the pictures (esp. The Ravenna mosaic from San Vitale wich is the source for all the paintings) is that the empress has clavi on her tunica like the men's ones, with this small orbiculum above the pointing. So it seems to be an oversized (and much more decorated) men's tunic. And some of the other women have orbiculi on their tunicas, too. I have not seen this earlier than 6th century, but I'm waiting for the dating of another picture with women wearing tunicas with orbiculi (and these women are musicians, so in some way outlaws, too... "

I see some pictures of these mosaics, like theodosia.. but it s too late , i think...

It s 6th century...., But in 450 ( approximately), one empress have this claviis in her tunic, like one men...

Thanks a lot Barbara!!!

[GALLA PLACIDIA]

And i found this...


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... iore_4.jpg

Is the mosaic on appear a little boy and his attendants, fantastic mosaic!!!

[Robert Vermaat]

How about this? it's from the Piazza Armerina.

[Graham Sumner]

Hello Carme

Aitor sent me a picture from a fresco of a woman with a yellow tunic with small orbiculii I will send it to you via an email but the address you gave me before did not work. can you pm me an address I can send it to. I have no idea of the date although it does not look too late but perhaps Aitor knows.

Graham.

[Barbara]

Hi Galla!

That is exactly the mosaic I ment. It shows little moses in front of the pharao's daughter.

Graham: Can you put the picture in here? Would be interesting for me, too.

Robert: Stay calm! :wink: This dalmaticae will be mentioned in part three of my explanations. And you've cut away the woman in the chiton :wink: The people are going to bath, a very familiar type of picture in the constantine time. AFAIK are this four persons (from left to right): a servant, bringing some clothes or a towel, a son of the domina who is following on his right and the fourth person is a son, too. That's the opinion of the scientists. But other people say, it might be that the men in short tunics are eunuchs. If you look on her feet you can see the toes and the short tunics and the cloak are signs for (something like) men, too.

Nearly the same pattern (without the "boys" is known from a silver box (just like the one the left servant at piazza armerina is carrying)from the esquiline treasure from rome. It is called the casket of Projecta, because it might have belonged to her and there's a portrait of her and her husband on the top of the box. Unfortunately I only did find a bad picture of a short side from the box, and our universitiy library has the book about it only as a copy with really worse pictures
http://www.udel.edu/ArtHistory/nees/209/images/4-13.jpg
But you can see: clavi! everywhere!

[Barbara]

btw: both, the mosaics from piazza armerina and the casket from esquiline treasure are dating to contantines (the first! ) time

[Robert Vermaat]

Hi Barbara!

Thanks for the explanation - very interesting. can't wait for the talk about the wide sleeves.

And you've cut away the woman in the chiton :wink:

I would've shown you the whole picture if my hard drive hadn't crashed..

[GALLA PLACIDIA]

Hi Barbara!!!

I found some pictures from the casket from esquiline treasure



This image is very great, you can see the two central figures perfectly!!!

[GALLA PLACIDIA]

Someone has models of shoes pf 5th century? it s like carbatinae? but the women shoes?

[NightHunter24]

Ave Galla Placidia!

I remember seeing a while back an example of carbatinae/caligae in the Legio XX site. Wouldn't men and women wear the same style of footwear anyhow? Just asking.

Oh yeah here's the link:

www.larp.com/legioxx/civcloth.html

Hope this helps for starters.

[GALLA PLACIDIA]

Now I am employed in the "handkerchiefs" that cover the headof the ladies of the court, someone would be able say to me exactly that they go in the head? Materials, bosses of clothes... etc..

like this:

or this...
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/jod/Picts/red_shoes.gif

Cover head of a mantle or not?

[Barbara]

Concerning the Shoes: in the timeline I do look at (300-450) they mostly seem to be of the same style: pointet, closed shoes with a hard sole. Most of the paintings/mosaics/ivorycarvings show only the front part, not the ankles. Like the picture that you set in here above, Galla, or like the serena-dyptichon. But there are few ones that show the ankle: they show, that it is more a boot than a low shoe.

As far as I know it was not decouros for women in the late roman time to show their toes in public.

The cheapest way to get some leather shoes that are closed and pointed is to go to one of those india-marocco-import-stores and ask for camelleatherslippers. that are slippers, okay, but you can work the over to boots - or just wear long clothing that noone sees the ankle! they should cost about 30€, we do wear them as a provisorium before we know more about the real shape. and if you just look at someone standing around in late roman clothing they do look exactly as the real late roman ones.

[Barbara]

btw: men's shoes (not the military ones!) seem to be a sort of sandal with a hard toecap and a heelcap like you can see at the porphyrbase at San Marco, Venedig, showing the tetrarchs wearing those sandals with gems and other jewellery on it. Maybe that they wear sockings or trousers with attatched sockings in it - I don't know exactly.