Calcei boot pattern?

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

Which one do you mean, Aitor, the one with the one-piece upper and toe? Or the ones I made? <p>Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica</p><i></i>

[aitor iriarte]

Lucius, sorry, but which boots did you made? I'm totally lost!<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

Hi Aitor,<br>
I'm sorry to have confused you. I made a pair of boots in which the toe is stitched to the upper as a seperate piece, with a visible seam on each side where it is joined to the upper. I used an invisible tunnel stitch to join the pieces, so that the stitching does not show on the outside of the boot. Mine have a series of decorative square cut-outs running up the back of the heel. I have yet to hobnail the soles, however, because I havn't ordered the nails yet. When I can borrow my friend's camera, (perhaps next weekend) I will photograph my boots and show them to you.<br>
The boots that I was interested in having a pattern for are the ones where the toe and upper are all one piece, and the toe is joined with a vertical seam over the top of the foot. I hope my description has cleared a little of the confusion up. <p>Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica</p><i></i>

[aitor iriarte]

Sorry, but not<br>
Maybe that photo or a drawing...<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

Ok...let me get that camera, and I'll show you mine! Sorry I am not such a good "explainer" <p>Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica</p><i></i>

[aitor iriarte]

Oh, now I think that I understand what do you mean !<br>
As a general trend, the footwear, included the military one, tended to be lower and more 'open' from the last part of third century onwards. The military boots with the toe reinforcement that you say are a little earlier in date (Say, central third of the century?)<br>
Well, I couldn't help my group people deciding to wear that somewhat anachronistic boot model, when they are supposed to portrait late fourth/early fifth century soldiers... less you!<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

That's true, but you must admit that for tramping around in high grass and thorns, and perhaps other rough terrain, they tend to be a bit more protective of one's feet... <p>Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica</p><i></i>

[aitor iriarte]

Lucius,<br>
Were all in this re-enactment 'business' mainly for fun. Therefore, I think that rules musn't suffocate re-enactors' enthusiasm...<br>
BUT<br>
There is always a question that you must ask yourself: Do you want to look like your pre-conceived idea (be it derived from what you think is beautiful or comfortable -no matter period or place- of from what appears on some Osprey books) about how a Roman soldier should look like or do you want to look like a Roman soldier DID look like (at least in the few facts we know about that )<br>
Roman soldiers were slaves of fashion as it has always been the case with soldiers until modern 'uniformity'. About footwear in the West, it is beyond any doubt that fashion dictated low and rather open shoes for the fourth century...<br>
It's up to you, and nobody will notice if you're wearing third century boots while re-enacting fourth: The public has not the slightest idea on it (we're supposed to educate them ) and most re-enactors think that a 'late shoe' is just a modern boot with the heel removed...<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=aitoririarte>Aitor Iriarte</A> at: 9/1/04 8:26 am<br></i>

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

(Lucius shamefully hangs his head, grinning sheepishly) But Aitor, I <em>really</em>like those boots... perhaps I'll kick my impression back in time a bit so that I can wear them?<br>
I know you are right about the low shoes, though.<br>
What about the Germanic tribes? Do you think they would have retained some of the styles of boot that their native population wore? After all, I am not a true Roman, but a Briton in Rome's service. <p>Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica</p><i></i>

[aitor iriarte]

Lucius,<br>
Don't take it too seriously. After all, my 'men' in the 'Cohors Prima Gallica' are wearing those third century boots against my advice and the Heavens haven't fallen on our heads!<br>
One of the soldiers painted on the Roman shrine at Luxor (Egypt) (around 300 AD) is wearing 'high' closed boots. It is an exception but you could portrait that exception...<br>
<br>
Aitor<br>
<br>
PS, better not to delve into the contemporary non-Roman footwear. very little is known and very little of that little is dated! <p></p><i></i>

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

Thanks Aitor! I will indeed portray that exception. About the Germanic or other "barbarian" tribes, I only used that example not to go into a detailed study of their native footwear, only to illustrate that it might have been possible for a Briton soldier in the Roman army to have retained some of the customs, including clothing and footwear, of his native people. This was done often by auxillary troops, and the similarities of some of their boots and shoes are very evident, and may not be as coincidental as some suspect. <p>Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica</p><i></i>

[Crispvs]

When putting together my (still not fully complete) early fourth century kit I used the opened out shoe from Duene (?) featured in Bishop and Coulston 1993 as my pattern and thereafter at History in Action VII at Kirby Hall could be seen sporting what quickly became known as the 'Crispvs Romper-Suit of Doom' and the "most effete shoes in re-enactment" (as well as a tunic with the shortest wrist length sleeves I have ever made). This didn't bother me however. What did bother me more was that without having seen front and back photographs of the shoe in question my reconstruction may have been too heavily influenced by my experience of making turnshoes when I was an eleventh century re-enactor. When I get a decent photo of myself in fourth century kit I'll post it and those with more experience can advise me. I thought of making boots but couldn't find any contemporary illustrations of them so decided to avoid them.<br>
<br>
Crispvs <p></p><i></i>

[aitor iriarte]

Crispus,<br>
It's Deurne, in the Netherlands. Tht pattern in B&C is copied from a drawing made before the Great War (FWW)! and re-publishd without changes in the seventies (H. Klumbach ed. 'Spätrömische Gardehelme') and is highly defective<br>
Moreover after a long discussion on that shoe with Carol van Driel, she has published new accurate drawings but her reconstruction about how that shoe closed at the ankle is pure guesswork.<br>
I'd be really interested on seeing your reconstruction<br>
I suppose that you've seen mine of one of the campagi from the same findspot, as I've posted the pic several times on different threads.<br>
Of course, I took several photos of the closed Deurne shoes when I was at Leiden, ten years ago...<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

Here's a shot of my boots, it's not all that clear, but it's all I have right now. You can also just see the hilt of my spatha with its inset brass plate, my cingulum, and my ridge helmet. <img src="http://www.photobucket.com/albums/v384/Lucius68/LuciusEquipmentSmall.jpg" style="border:0;"/> <p>Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=luciusaureliusmetellus@romanarmytalk>Lucius Aurelius Metellus</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v384/Lucius68/Lucius.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 9/19/04 5:19 am<br></i>

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

And here's one more shot...<img src="http://www.photobucket.com/albums/v384/Lucius68/LuciusShoe1.jpg" style="border:0;"/><br>
Aitor, you can now see the seam where the toe of my boot is joined to the uppers. The stitching doesn't show on the outside of the boot, and is similar to the construction of one of the Vindolanda boots, except the Vindolanda boot's stitching is visible on the outside. I made the seam using what is called an "edge flesh butt seam".<br>
My soles are not yet hobnailed, but soon will be. <p>Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica</p><i></i>