BBC Rome\'s Lost Empire

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Am I mistaken or was the program actually discovering things already found by conventional means?

............ Still it was interesting to learn that even the isolated forts in the desert apparently had the equivalent of the Vicus around them

Graham.

The program on Egypt, utilizing pioneering satellite radar ground mapping technology developed by the lady from the states(whos name escapes me), was showing up remains previously undiscovered, and also extending some known finds....
I would hope this Limes program was of similar caliber?

[Nathan Ross]

Am I mistaken or was the program actually discovering things already found by conventional means?

Yes it was. The Portus amphitheatre (as your link shows) was discovered in 2009. The lighthouse was located in 2007 by Morelli, Marinucci and Arnoldus-Huyzendveld. Even the scrapyard is old news:

Portus - Claudian lighthouse

See photo link at the bottom credited to Theo Jan Bakker 2007.

The programme very disingenuously pretended that nobody knew about these things until the arrival of Dan Snow and his team. I expect the same is true of their other 'discoveries'. Doubtless Sarah Parcak does lots of good work with satellite imaging, but pretending that archaeology works like this does nobody any favours.

Funny Guardian review here...

When Snow goes diving in the Danube to visit the well-explored ruins of Trajan's Bridge, it's presented as if Parcak has found that too, so that by the time he strides into the Coliseum at Rome, you half expect him to announce: "At last, she's found it! The Coliseum!" Or just: "Rome! She's found bloody Rome!"

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I didn't get that impression at all from the program on Egypt....
even that Egyptian minister of antiquities was admitting he was learning new things,
which to me seems as rare as hens teeth.
However, Dan Snow was not on that program, IIRC....

[Robert Vermaat]

The programme very disingenuously pretended that nobody knew about these things until the arrival of Dan Snow and his team.

Indeed, they make true archaeology look bad, as if they're saying 'well look at us, a tv crew and a satellite, and look what we've found and what all those nitwits before us missed'. The intro to the show already sets the tone, with Indiana Jones-style clenched-teeth drama: "uncovering the secrets of the Roman empire, which have been lost - until now".

I like that Guardian review, they got it right;
"And now we're off, racing round the Roman empire, solving mysteries at every turn"
Indeed. ;-)

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Trust the BBC to take someones hard work and discredit it with their substandard standards.

[PhilusEstilius]

I also watched this and began to think that it might enlighten many if they looked at the late Raymond Selkirk's 255 line frontier with this satellite here in northern England, it may indeed change the whole thinking of why Hadrian's Wall and also some of the Roman history of Britain.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

i think that's a sound idea Brian. The way she was presenting her evidence in Egypt was not
bad at all. It also highlighted the looting that has taken place since the Arab Spring...
It has a great deal to be said for it, as long as egotistical presenters are not hijacking her work for their own benefit.

[mcbishop]

I also watched this and began to think that it might enlighten many if they looked at the late Raymond Selkirk's 255 line frontier with this satellite here in northern England, it may indeed change the whole thinking of why Hadrian's Wall and also some of the Roman history of Britain.

Whilst the programme implied that there was one satellite specially tasked for this and that it was the latest declassified military tech, in reality this was inevitably done from commercial satellite imagery which is 'freely' available at various resolutions at around $1500/£1000 a pop. It is supplied to you in a raw, unprocessed format and you have to do all the processing - tying up the average pc for the best part of a day (I tried all this when I was looking at the satellite coverage of Saudi Arabia a couple of years back). Then you might have clouds or other junk littering the place on your expensive image. All of this explains why Google Maps/Earth images are so good: they take the raw image, process it, trim out the bits that aren't wanted, and then let you see them for free, often in multiple layers (some of the WW2 stuff is just stunning).

They played down the infrared aspect this time, unlike the Egypt programme, and bigged-up the lidar (which has been around for ages - 1960s to be exact - and the first UK archaeological application was on the Roman fort at Newton Kyme in the 1990s; see the free EH publication Light Fantastic for more info)

So, like much else in the programme, they played a bit fast and loose with the truth.

Mike Bishop

[PhilusEstilius]

I realy do not mind what type of satellite is used to show this frontier line with all of its forts and its mile fortlets for it would be good to see it all revealed, in fact it has already given us some very interesting finds to date from various points along its line that are here in museums not only in the north of England but also the British Museum.

[John1]

If you are looking to do a snoop on the cheap I have found you can buy 2m LIDAR data for much of the country from the Environment Agency, a 1km grid square is £10 for non-commercial use;
www.geomatics-group.co.uk

[Vindex]

Finally put aside some time to watch this as a friend very kindly recorded it for me.

What a disappointment. I only watched about 20 minutes before the overly martial music drove me batty... :woot:

Doh...I think I'll watch 'A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum" now I have some spare time. At least I can join in with the songs... ;-)

[M. Demetrius]

How many geese in a gaggle? :grin:

[Lyceum]

How many geese in a gaggle? :grin:

> or equal to 5.

[Paul Elliott]

I like Dan Snow's documentaries usually ( his series on the Royal Navy was splendid) and I have actually met him, but this show was pretty bad and I almost turned it off a couple of times. Hearing that many of the discoveries were already discovered doesn't surprise me, and I did suspect some misdirection.

I did get the feeling that the show put this new technology on a pedastal. I'm realistic, I have a degree in archaeology!

[Vindex]

How many geese in a gaggle? :grin:

...I think you'll find its seven; as in the hills of Rome