Roman Salute

[Anonymous]

Is there a translation of the Greek that is on this sculpture? I wonder if there is an indication in that text of the [cavalryman] saluting? Or what may be going on?<br>
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I can't translate Greek directly, but I can translitterate the letters/words themselves....I just can't read them well enough with the current image.<br>
<p>-ANDY aka "Roman Dude" Svaviter in Modo, Fortiter in Re<br>
<br>
www.higgins.org </p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

It almost looks like the guy on the right, holding out the helmet, is maybe holding that helmet out for the cavalryman to grab? Too bad we can't see what his other hand is doing (other than holding reins)<br>
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Another *idea* is the cavalryman is waving the left 3 soldiers to "move out" while dashing ahead to grab his helmet off to victory.<br>
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The far right soldier almost looks like he could be holding the crest to prevent it flapping in wind...But it does look like a salute....Just thinking outloud <p>-ANDY aka "Roman Dude" Svaviter in Modo, Fortiter in Re<br>
<br>
www.higgins.org </p><i></i>

[Praefectusclassis]

The usual interpretation of the relief is that Mikkalus is shown making the transition from centurio to equestrian officer, getting the new accoutrements from the soldiers on the right. <p>Greets<br>
<br>
Jasper</p><i></i>

[Robert Vermaat]

I'm not into Roman monuments showing soldiers 'being bored', 'wiping their brow' or 'holding their helmet against the wind' stuff.<br>
I mean, this seems all very official, a deciding moment in the guy's career. And Roman art being almost always formal, especially where funerary monuments are concerned, I do think any interpretation should be of formal poses, not informal ones.<br>
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Saluting is a formal pose.<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=vortigernstudies>Vortigern Studies</A> at: 5/28/04 6:59 am<br></i>

[Uwe Bahr]

Avete omnes,<br>
<br>
I have a picture description of Marcus Junkelmann (in one of his three books about Roman cavalry "Die Reiter Roms") in mind, where he describes what is happening on the sculpture.<br>
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As You said, Jasper, does the relief show the transition of Mikkalus from Centurio to equestrian officer.<br>
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So, on the left side of the relief are shown his old comrades from an infantry unit, obviously fellow officers or centuriones. They hold symbolic his infantry weapons, a helmet with a small crista and small cheek peaces, and a short sword of gladius type.<br>
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His new comrades on the right side, into whose direction he is riding, hold his cavalry insigna. One holds a rider's lance and presents Mikkalus his new cavalry helmet with larger cheek peaces and a larger crista. The gesture of the figure on the very right side is generally interpreted as a salute of this soldier to his new commander.<br>
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Mikkalus is also greeting his new comrades and has already girdled his new and longer spatha.<br>
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Also interesting, the infantry officers/soldiers on the left wear cuirasses with a deeper abdomen, while the two cavalry officers/soldiers on the right have the shorter types on, that are more comfortable when riding on a horse.<br>
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Uwe <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=uwebahr>Uwe Bahr</A> at: 5/29/04 4:58 am<br></i>

[Uwe Bahr]

One question yet to the latin scholars. Is 'Mikkalus' the latinized version of the originally greek name 'Michael'?<br>
<br>
Uwe <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Well... the "-us" ending sounds Latin, but Latin usually transliterates the "k" into "c," not generally using the k. I know what I can try: I'll check into how "Michael" is rendered in the Vulgate when I get into the office next... Unless someone else has a more definitive answer for Uwe?<br>
<br>
Aaron <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

Well, the Vulgate transliterates Michael as Michahel. (From Jude 9) In in the Greek NT it is spelled with a chi which is typically transliterated "ch" and an eta, which is rendered "e" in the English but apparently "he" (at least in this case) in the Latin. But then I'm not sure if I consider myself sufficiently learned to call myself a "Latin scholar," so maybe someone else has more insight on this.<br>
<br>
Aaron <p></p><i></i>

[L C Cinna]

What are those guys on this monument wearing? Which kind of troops are they, they look like they just jumped out of one of those weird 50s and 60s movies and not like roman soldiers imho? <p></p><i></i>

[Uwe Bahr]

Cinna,<br>
<br>
obviously You overlooked my post Nr. 70 on page 1 to this topic<br>
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Meanwhile I can add the picture description of Marcus Junkelmann from his book "Die Reiter Roms 2" - I'll try to translate it with my poor English:<br>
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"Relief from the grave monument of the equestrian officer T. Flavius Mikkalus from Perinthos at the Marmara Sea, late 1st Century CE. After Hubert Devijver it shows the promotion of T. Flavius Mikkalus from a legion's <em>tribunus laticlavius</em> to <em>praefectus alae</em>. The officer comes from the social élite of the Hellenistic east, assuming after his name he may be the first of his family who received Roman civil rights and equestrian dignity. Normally men of his origin raised only to the more administrative tribunate of the legions, but Mikkalus arrived at the praefecture of an ala; and this may be the reason, why this moment of his career is shown on his funeral monument.<br>
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Left are standing men of the legion, from whom the just promoted praefectus is dismissing, while on the right side cavalry officers with rider's helmet and lance are awaiting their new commander. <strong>The man on the right side executes the military salute with his right hand being laid at the helmet and the left hand holding the hilt of his sword in parade manner. </strong>. Flavius Mikkalus wears a short muscle cuirass and the <em>cinctorium</em>, a sash reserved for higher officers.<br>
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The inscription is bilingual, in Latin and Greek, but conserved only in parts; Original in Istanbul, Archaeological Museum."<br>
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About the different weapons of the infantry and cavalry see above my post Nr. 70 to this topic. And take a look at the typical muscle cuirasses. The officers on the left wear the type with the extended abdomen while the cavalry officers on the right side wear the short type, that is more comfortable when riding on a horse.<br>
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I remember I have still at least two pictures anywhere with soldiers carrying out the military salute; I'll try to find them in the next days and post them here. IMHO the soldier on Mikkalus' and on the Ahaenobarbus monument are not lifting their helmets but are carrying out the formal military salute.<br>
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With friendly greets<br>
<br>
Uwe <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=uwebahr>Uwe Bahr</A> at: 5/30/04 6:48 pm<br></i>

[Uwe Bahr]

Avete omnes,<br>
<br>
I found the first example rather fast and I think, the most of You will know it from the Men-at-Arms-Series, Nr. 89 "Byzantine Armies 886 - 1118", page Nr.29:<br>
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<img src="http://people.freenet.de/u-bahr/Armsalut.jpg" style="border:0;"/><br>
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The image depicts Armenian infantry in Byzantine employ on an ivory casket from the 10th Century. IMHO it shows that these men are still knowing the official Roman military salute. Obviously they are saluting an officer on the left and (like their predecessors) hold their right hands at the helmets while they seem to hold their round shields in a kind of parade manner exactly in the same way with their left hands.<br>
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For the second example I will have to go to our University library, get a book there and scan a picture. This will take some time ...<br>
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Greets - Uwe <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=uwebahr>Uwe Bahr</A> at: 1/3/05 12:16 pm<br></i>

[Uwe Bahr]

Sorry, a mistake of mine ... I posted the same comment two times<br>
Uwe <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=uwebahr>Uwe Bahr</A> at: 5/30/04 8:04 pm<br></i>

[TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS]

<br>
Wait for the second example... <p></p><i></i>

[L C Cinna]

I read your post no70 Uwe but I asked another question. Where did those inf. guys get their leather armour and those helmets from? They really look like the typical Hollywood Romans. <p></p><i></i>

[Praefectusclassis]

Tombstones are more reliable for equipment, in general, than other types of sculpture. However, you always need to ask where the tombstone came from. What sculptural tradition existed there, was there a history of military sculpture, did the sculpter have many examples walking around in real life? Sculptors, especially in the east, may always revert to classical, hellenistic images. <p>Greets<br>
<br>
Jasper</p><i></i>