hamata - source

[Caratacus]

The Latin word 'hama' certainly means 'hook'. I've always taken this to mean a reference to the double-S hook (sometimes of zoomorphic form) that was used to join the two shoulder lapets to the armour in the centre of the chest. However, in the earlier forms of 'celtic' armour (like the one shown on a carving from Pergamum in Turkey), this joining is by means of a copper alloy bar. Perhaps the term 'hamata' referes only to the Roman form of the armour? Just guessing here. I can't for the life of me see how 'hamata' can refer to the joining of iron rings with rivets, though.

Caratacus (Mike Thomas)

[Publius Nonius Severus]

Dan et al.

This is a very rough translation of the relevant passage:

"Lorica, quod e loris de corio crudo pectoralia faciebant; postea subcidit gallica e ferro sub id vocabulum, ex anulis ferrea tunica"

"Armor, which from straps of crude leather made into a chest plate; later fallen from the Gauls (Gallica) and taken from their designation for it, a tunic made of iron rings."

I am not super confident with parts of the translation. I'm not sure the exact meanng of subcidit. It has several that could be relevant: (Fallen down from, yielded down, etc.) I think ferro might be a typo in the Latin Library version. As written it means of of iron but that doesn't make sense to me since it is said to made of iron later (ferrea - different declension). I'll check it out some more. I haven't found an English translation of Varro yet.

-Severus

[Tarbicus]

"Armor, which from straps of crude leather made into a chest plate; later fallen from the Gauls (Gallica) and taken from their designation for it, a tunic made of iron rings."

Sounds to me like a pectoral, perhaps, hanging from leather straps? If the pectoral plate were made of iron then it could make sense in the confusing part?

[Dan Howard]

The Latin word 'hama' certainly means 'hook'. I've always taken this to mean a reference to the double-S hook (sometimes of zoomorphic form) that was used to join the two shoulder lapets to the armour in the centre of the chest. However, in the earlier forms of 'celtic' armour (like the one shown on a carving from Pergamum in Turkey), this joining is by means of a copper alloy bar. Perhaps the term 'hamata' referes only to the Roman form of the armour?

The problem with this is that by the time of Jerome (405AD) that form of mail armour didn't exist.

[Dan Howard]

Dan et al.

This is a very rough translation of the relevant passage:

<SNIP>
Many thanks. How about Pliny's passage?

[Publius Nonius Severus]

I found this in Pliny the Younger, Letters book 9, letter 30, section 2.
Quos habuit vultus hamati vulnere ferri Caesa caput Gorgon!

Hmmm, that quote is actually from Lucan's Pharsalia or Civil Wars (it has different names) and recounts the story of Perseus cutting off Medusa's head (The passage is about the expression on her face when her head was cut off) I think the reference to hamati is more like "attached" here (as in expression attached to her face).

Sorry I can't give you more!

p.s. I have no idea why Lucan is referencing Medusa in a poem about the battle of Pharsalus. It must be some poetic device.

-Severus

[Sean Manning]

There is also a vague passage in Virgil, Aeneid 3. The scene shows some signs of not having been revised before his death, or perhaps he realized the anachronism and was vague as a result. Aeneas recieved, inter alia:

loricam consertam hamis auroque trilicem,
et conum insignis galeae cristasque comantis,
arma Neoptolemi. (III.467-69)

R.D. Williams would make that "armour interwoven with chain and triple-meshed in gold, and a superb helmet with flowing plumes set at its apex, arms of Neoptolemus." Consertus/-a/-um means "having been entwined, tied, or joined" and hami are hooks or barbs.

Still, it does show that that another Roman writer used "hamatus" in describing some sort of armour.

[Robert Vermaat]

Bishop & Coulston mention as sources Polybios VI.23 and Varro, de Lingua Latina V.116. I also came across Varro V.24.

I came across this dictonary on Lacus Curtius for 'lorica':
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/R ... orica.html

The Roman hastati wore cuirasses of chain-mail, i.e. hauberks or habergeons (ἁλυσιδωτοὺς θώρακας, Polyb. VI.23;º Athen. V.22; Arrian, l.c.). Virgil several times mentions hauberks in which the rings, linked or hooked into one another, were of gold (loricam consertam hamis, auroque trilicem, Virg. Aen. III.467, V.259, VII.639).

[Dan Diffendale]

C. PLINIUS GEMINO SUO S.

1 Laudas mihi et frequenter praesens et nunc per epistulas Nonium tuum, quod sit liberalis in quosdam: et ipse laudo, si tamen non in hos solos. Volo enim eum, qui sit vere liberalis, tribuere patriae propinquis, affinibus amicis, sed amicis dico pauperibus, non ut isti qui iis potissimum donant, qui donare maxime possunt. 2 Hos ego viscatis hamatisque muneribus non sua promere puto sed aliena corripere. Sunt ingenio simili qui quod huic donant auferunt illi, famamque liberalitatis avaritia petunt. 3 Primum est autem suo esse contentum, deinde, quos praecipue scias indigere, sustentantem foventemque orbe quodam socialitatis ambire. Quae cuncta si facit iste, usquequaque laudandus est; si unum aliquid, minus quidem, laudandus tamen: 4 tam rarum est etiam imperfectae liberalitatis exemplar. Ea invasit homines habendi cupido, ut possideri magis quam possidere videantur. Vale.

p.s. I have no idea why Lucan is referencing Medusa in a poem about the battle of Pharsalus. It must be some poetic device.

If he didn't he'd be Caesar.

[Dan Howard]

Found an entry in Strabo [8.7.12].

hê de mastix ên triplê halusidôtê apêrtêmenous echousa ex hautês astragalous, hoi plêttontes to chalkion sunechôs, hopote aiôrointo hupo tôn anemôn, makrous êchous apeirgazonto, heôs ho metrôn ton chronon apo tês archês tou êchou mechri telous kai epi tetrakosia proelthoi

[Tarbicus]

Found an entry in Strabo [8.7.12].

hê de mastix ên triplê halusidôtê apêrtêmenous echousa ex hautês astragalous, hoi plêttontes to chalkion sunechôs, hopote aiôrointo hupo tôn anemôn, makrous êchous apeirgazonto, heôs ho metrôn ton chronon apo tês archês tou êchou mechri telous kai epi tetrakosia proelthoi

Lovely.

What does it say? :wink:

[Dan Howard]

I was hoping to find an English translation online but was unsuccessful. I'll do a translation myself when I can find my lexicons.

[drsrob]

Found an entry in Strabo [8.7.12].

hê de mastix ên triplê halusidôtê apêrtêmenous echousa ex hautês astragalous, hoi plêttontes to chalkion sunechôs, hopote aiôrointo hupo tôn anemôn, makrous êchous apeirgazonto, heôs ho metrôn ton chronon apo tês archês tou êchou mechri telous kai epi tetrakosia proelthoi

Strabo's Geography I presume?

However in the Perseus Digital Library book VIII, chapter 7 has only 5 paragraphs.

[MeinPanzer]

Found an entry in Strabo [8.7.12].

hê de mastix ên triplê halusidôtê apêrtêmenous echousa ex hautês astragalous, hoi plêttontes to chalkion sunechôs, hopote aiôrointo hupo tôn anemôn, makrous êchous apeirgazonto, heôs ho metrôn ton chronon apo tês archês tou êchou mechri telous kai epi tetrakosia proelthoi

Strabo's Geography I presume?

However in the Perseus Digital Library book VIII, chapter 7 has only 5 paragraphs.

Hmm, yeah I have my LCL copy of Strabo right here and it only goes from 8.7.1 to 8.7.8.

[Kevin J. Aschenmeier]

re: Strabo quote.

If you could actually type in or scan the real greek letters, rather than the transliterated stuff, I could translate it. The transliteration is too confusing.

Kevin