Hellenistic Surrender

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

That was his first battle I believe, Gaugamela (I think)

Granikos? And maybe he killed not all of them..

Errr, possibly, its been a while since I read anything on it!

[hoplite14gr]

It is Granikos and Alexnader is rumored not to have given the order to waist them but he left the Aeolian Greek colonists allied detachments to show their hatred to the "kingd tax collectors" like in Thebes he left the city to he tender mercies of the Orhomenians, Phokeans and Plateans.
Kind regards

[Paullus Scipio]

Robert wrote:-

Wasn't there an incident in one of Alexander's battles where Greek mercenaries fighting on the Persian side attempted to surrender like that? Attempted, because the Macedonians regarded them as traitors and killed the lot of them?

The battle is the Granikos ( Alexander's first against Darius' Persians).Here is what the sources have to say about the 'surrender' of the mercenaries.......
Diodorus XXI.4
After the rout of the cavalry, the foot soldiers engaged one another in a contest that was soon ended. For the Persians, dismayed by the rout of the cavalry and shaken in spirit, were quick to flee. The total of the Persian infantry killed was more than ten thousand; of the cavalry not less than two thousand; and there were taken alive upwards of twenty thousand.
Plutarch “Life of Alexanderâ€

[Mythos_Ruler]

Paullus, I'll go with you! That would be fun! Take a few years.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Me too!! :lol: :lol:
I was going to ask if anyone had excavated the battle site?

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Haha,this would be my comment when I read and realized what I was reading! Do you think Turkish Government would let a Greek like me follow some Australians, Americans and English men in the excavation? Can you imagine the front ranker Macedonians with their full armour and even more buried in one place?
Khairete
Giannis

[Andrew Magee]

Hey, I am about to have about a month off school. I'm in. :lol:

[Mythos_Ruler]

I'm sure the course of the river has changed in 2400 years? Might make a detailed and accurate survey of the battle site quite difficult (unless someone else has already done it).

[Dan Diffendale]

NOTE; somewhere near the Granikos river are dozens of Macedonian tombs, complete with arms and armour.....anyone got a metal detector and lots of time ??? Wink Wink

Yes, in fact, someone does have a metal detector and lots of time. Many of them live there. That's why looting is such a huge problem around the world, and especially in western Turkey.

In regards to the region of Lydia, dotted with Phrygian and Persian tombs: "Of the 397 tumuli personally inspected, 357 or 90 percent showed signs of looting" (Roosevelt, C. H., and C. Luke. 2006. "Looting Lydia: The destruction of an archaeological landscape in western Turkey." In Archaeology, cultural heritage, and the antiquities trade, edited by N. Brodie, M. M. Kersel, C. Luke, and K. W. Tubb, p. 179). And that's just one survey of one type of site in one region.

There is in fact an official project underway, the Granicus River Valley Survey Project (sorry there isn't a more official page).

I realize that the initial post may have been tongue-in-cheek, but I would urge every reader of this board to take a look at the following website, http://www.savingantiquities.org/ , in particular:
http://www.savingantiquities.org/heritagewhy.php
http://www.savingantiquities.org/heritagelooting.php
http://www.savingantiquities.org/heritagetrade.php
http://www.savingantiquities.org/crime.php

It's not a joke anymore. If you want to know anything about what is found, you need to know where it comes from, how it was in the ground, in relation to the things around it. If there were ever a chance to find evidence of organic materials (armor or otherwise), it would be completely denied by looting. Looters don't care about organics. Too much work for too little gain. The gain would be scientific, not monetary. Maybe they find a complete panoply in a burial, helmet, cuirass, shield fitting, weapons, etc. But they can get more selling them off individually; we'll never know that the items once formed a complete set. We'll be lucky to know any of them ever existed -- probably spirited off to private collectors somewhere. I know, I know, someone will say that if it goes to a museum it'll never be seen. There are always exceptions, but in the museum it can be studied, it can be published (and, deo volente, it will be), it will be preserved for future generations.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Yes i know, i just want all the glory of finding these things.... :roll: :oops:

[Paullus Scipio]

WHOAH !!!!!!! That was some grenade you lobbed in there, Dan ! (Picks oneself up and dusts down, removing fragments from hair) :lol: :lol:

Obviously a subject dear to your heart ( unsurprising, given your profession!). I think almost all on this forum would be aware of the problem you have highlighted,Dan, hence my poor attempt at a joke....
This is all the more so because of course the river ( like most) has changed course many times, and there is considerable doubt that the battle was fought 'on the river' anyway! Not to mention that angry locals may have obliterated the tombs, as soon as Alexander moved on......

"Of the 397 tumuli personally inspected, 357 or 90 percent showed signs of looting"

...... on the face of it, an alarming figure, but, to put it in perspective, it should be remembered that the looting has been going on for at least 2,500 years....even many of the Egyptian Pyramids were looted within a few years of their being built...often by the same gangs who built them !
It is not just a modern phenomenon.
The real danger here is that the small number of tombs etc that have survived 2,500 years of 'treasure hunters' are at risk because of modern technology ( the metal detector is both a benefit - finding coin hoards and other things that would otherwise never have turned up- and a bane...)

Reading your links, I noted with alarm that looters now use ground-mapping radar ( how do they get access to such expensive and specialised technology? ) :evil: :twisted:

...and we have lamented this phenomenon before, see the thread on the Thracian tomb find, which noted that the hundreds of tumuli in Thrace/Bulgaria have suffered exactly the same fate down the last 2,500 years as those in Western Turkey you referred to...... cry:

Thanks for drawing attention to the Granicus Valley Survey....wasn't aware of this !!

[Robert Vermaat]

Reading your links, I noted with alarm that looters now use ground-mapping radar ( how do they get access to such expensive and specialised technology? ) :evil: :twisted:

It's called organised crime, and crime pays, no matter the proverb.

[M. Demetrius]

Anybody heard about the soon-coming restrictions on buying ancient coins online? Rumor has it that it will not be allowed in a short time.

[Robert Vermaat]

I hope so, and then plumbatae. :evil:

[Paullus Scipio]

Anybody heard about the soon-coming restrictions on buying ancient coins online? Rumor has it that it will not be allowed in a short time.

...I have read fleetingly that there is a proposal to do this in the U.S, but something tells me there won't be a worldwide ban........