Macedonian Sarrisa

[Hoplitesmores]

The shield sorry its in greek again

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Ahhh it's all greek to me...... :lol: :roll:

[Hypaspist]

Oh No ! I was Going to write that , then thought better of it ! Yes It is Greek .. Laugh
The Pictures of the Sleeve are neat , but seem a little to Advanced for Hellenistic techniques . Really If a Sleeve was needed simple matter , ut I just do not see the need other than repair , or ease of Transport .. or nessesary use of inferior Wood supplies. :lol:
Michael P.

[Alexander Polemos]

thank you for that^^/ my bad.. from everything that i've seen the sarisa was one handed. i have not seen a closer view to see how the s\\hield was placed. thank you.

Although i still find that a shorter spear/pike is much easier to manage, something that large is still hard to use with any skill. it goes to show how expert they were!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

It must have been why they were so vulnerable to flanking maouvers...

I hope my Greek Brothers will forgive my poor joke...

[Hoplitesmores]

The shield would hang from the aorter and the sarissa would be wielded 2handed.The shield shape and the aorter length would make it hang on the left shoulder.If the sarissa broke or the battle got very close the sarissophoros could discard the sarissa and put his hand in the porpax and antilabe and fight-not very well.

If his hand is in the porpax and antilabe he cant fight at all with the sarissa.

[Sean Manning]

Sean,
yes I have Read Skeined , Most of what he said I like , some small ideas not well thought out . I have to Presume he has not Really handled very many weapons in person ! Connolly , is a great Illustrator and Experimental Archeologist .. but I think he has reconstructed some things on rather flimsy evidence .. The Only evidence I saw about a Sleeve was a Find in Greece rather well pictured of a Butt and Sleeve and head .. some like Sekunda says are not a Sarrisa , I think because of the weight and type of Head . but how Knows , its not necessary to use a sleeve , but even could be a Repair method just as well.
I just want to know if there was any new , or older specific information , on Objects found , of possible Sarrisa connection . By the way I do not Agree with Sekunda's " Command Spear Hypothesis "
And Surely the Guy who wrote about holding a sarrisa with one hand is Joking :lol:
Michael Pechacek Sr..

OK. I haven't read Sekunda's article myself and I wasn't criticizing it, but I think what I said may have sounded that way. I've just finished a stressful set of exams and I'm not feeling right. Good luck with your research!

[Alexander Polemos]

HEHE^^. thats what this forum is for: learning. i learned that my idea of one handed use is completely wrong, and that i should now find out how to hang my shield so that I can use the sarissa.

i would differ that the warrior wouldnt be able to fight very well without the sarissa, though. As with everything it depends on the person, but still I would imagingne that they trained to use their secondary sword and became quite proficient with that.

[Paullus Scipio]

Paralus wrote:-
[quote]We do have Polybius’ descriptions of the sarisa armed phalanx in operation and his narrow views of its effectiveness. I say narrow as, by his day, we are talking of 24’ pikes and phalanxes nowhere as expert as Philip’s or Alexander’s. Polybius – and his modern day adherents (Markle for example) - would have us believe that this is the bible on the phalanx. This has led to the view that the phalanx was a rigid and immobile formation. Further, it could only ever be deployed on level ground without any obstruction. Were it to move onto “broken groundâ€

[Hypaspist]

Paul ,
It is always good to have your well read Input .. I also Agree with you on Sarrisa Lenght ,, (7.2M) does seem improbable and I think also such a lenght may indeed negate any advantage a Long " Spear" or Pike would have because at such a lenght ( and now I speak from Trying some very long Sticks ) its weight and use would not be as easily controlled , where at 15 feet or so , its scary who easy a Pike is Controlled .
Michael Pechacek Sr.

[Sean Manning]

Another exception on sarissa length: Polybius (18.29) says that typical sarissas are 14 cubits long. But ancient measurements were often imprecise, or given in subtly different standards, so these figures of 10-14 cubits may all refer to about the same size of weapon. Connolley notes that fifteenth to seventeenth century pikes were 15-22 feet (c. 10-14 cubits) long, with a tapered shaft and small point. And we all know pikemen in that period could be quite aggressive.

The infantry sarissa Connolley reconstructed was 5.84 m long, 4.0 kg in weight, with the small head and four-flanged buttweight from Vergina. A group of reenactors using the pikes and shields found they could thrust up to one cubit forward in formation.

[Hoplitesmores]

[Hypaspist]

Sean,
yes I agree .. I have two Swiss Pikes which are both about 15 1/2 feet long , very precise and quick Action can be presented with these , They have a very small head (Like 5 inches) , and very Sharp , they also both have Tappered Shafts , to the front and Rear . Shafts are about 1 1/2" ( I believe ?/) and No Butt .I have found with some experimental action that at about 18-20 feet you start to loose alot of the control ( which is amazingly precise !) 'With a early Modern Age Pike , you can easily aim and put out a eye , DEAD CENTER !
And yes I have read Connolly . The Main effort behind this Topic was to find any Evidence in Museums or new or Old Publishing of Known or supposed Fittings , Butt Spike , Head ect . And Any Pictures of such . Not already seen in such Picture books .

Michael Pechacek

[Hypaspist]

Themistoklis,
Thank you for the English Translation on the terms , we should be better and Know our Greek as you Know Our English !
Michael Pechacek Sr.

[Sean Manning]

Sean,
yes I agree .. I have two Swiss Pikes which are both about 15 1/2 feet long , very precise and quick Action can be presented with these , They have a very small head (Like 5 inches) , and very Sharp , they also both have Tappered Shafts , to the front and Rear . Shafts are about 1 1/2" ( I believe ?/) and No Butt .I have found with some experimental action that at about 18-20 feet you start to loose alot of the control ( which is amazingly precise !) 'With a early Modern Age Pike , you can easily aim and put out a eye , DEAD CENTER !
And yes I have read Connolly . The Main effort behind this Topic was to find any Evidence in Museums or new or Old Publishing of Known or supposed Fittings , Butt Spike , Head ect . And Any Pictures of such . Not already seen in such Picture books .

Michael Pechacek

Very interesting! Have you had a chance to compare the head-level 'Swiss grip' with the waist-level 'Macedonian grip'?