04-16-2009, 04:54 PM
Paul MS,
I have it right in front of me, although I didn't the other day. Fully expanding your quote, it reads,
"There has been support too for the view that the big oval shields with side cutouts, the so called Dipylon shields, reflect the figure of eight shields of the bronze age and indicate a heroic occasion, but they are just highly stylized renderings of the usual shields of hide stretched over a frame, which by around 700 BC were generally displaced with round shields."
He also says on the same page:
"It is difficult to uncover any true archaizing of of equipment or dress in Greek art, at any period, or indeed the invention of any plausible but long-lost gear; it is all in modern dress."
Which would tend to contradict your opinion that the Boeotian shield was an invention.
He also earlier reports,
And as the footnote you quote states, he believes that the later shield may have existed.
From all these quotes we can see quite clearly that he believes the dipylon existed, it was not a misrepresentation of a half remembered "convention", and that he also believes that the later shield may well have existed.
And unlike you all I'm arguing is that it may have existed. And if it may have existed, its worth trying to reproduce, as using one will give further insights to fill in the gaps left in the historical record.
"A very high proportion of the figure scenes on Greek vases deals with the subjects of myth. The few that present everyday life, increasingly in the late archaic and classical periods, often give it also a heroic flavour."
And there is nothing exclusive, as you claim, about that, especially when you combine it with the earlier quote about archaizing.
Lets reduce this to a question though. Are you willing to admit the Boeotian MAY have existed, in some role in late archaic Greece, yes or no?
Thanks,
Cole
I have it right in front of me, although I didn't the other day. Fully expanding your quote, it reads,
"There has been support too for the view that the big oval shields with side cutouts, the so called Dipylon shields, reflect the figure of eight shields of the bronze age and indicate a heroic occasion, but they are just highly stylized renderings of the usual shields of hide stretched over a frame, which by around 700 BC were generally displaced with round shields."
He also says on the same page:
"It is difficult to uncover any true archaizing of of equipment or dress in Greek art, at any period, or indeed the invention of any plausible but long-lost gear; it is all in modern dress."
Which would tend to contradict your opinion that the Boeotian shield was an invention.
He also earlier reports,
And as the footnote you quote states, he believes that the later shield may have existed.
From all these quotes we can see quite clearly that he believes the dipylon existed, it was not a misrepresentation of a half remembered "convention", and that he also believes that the later shield may well have existed.
And unlike you all I'm arguing is that it may have existed. And if it may have existed, its worth trying to reproduce, as using one will give further insights to fill in the gaps left in the historical record.
"A very high proportion of the figure scenes on Greek vases deals with the subjects of myth. The few that present everyday life, increasingly in the late archaic and classical periods, often give it also a heroic flavour."
And there is nothing exclusive, as you claim, about that, especially when you combine it with the earlier quote about archaizing.
Lets reduce this to a question though. Are you willing to admit the Boeotian MAY have existed, in some role in late archaic Greece, yes or no?
Thanks,
Cole
Cole
