Spartan pederasty?

[PMBardunias]

The question is always about adults and boys.

Yes, and the proper term in our, at least in the US leal system, is paedophilia not homosexuality. Yet we don't read of rampant paedophilia in Greece, but homosexuality. In reality it was something distinct from both of our modern notions of paedophelia or homosexuality. The boys at the age "when they looked most beautiful" were used as proxy-women by men who would not find other adult males attractive. They looked at "beatiful" male youths and objectified them in art the way we do girls in our culture.

In the end I can't find serious disagreement between us,Paul. I just think that in the same way calling Spartans or other Greeks "Gays" is wrong, pointing all the time that Lycurgus' laws were more "modest" is also wrong. Nor the one neither the other will offer a realistic view of the unseen habits of the Spartans.

Perhaps I haven't been clear, I am not saying that Spartans did not engage in this behavior as part of their "unseen habits"- heck, meeting their brides required sneaking! I am saying that the laws of Lycurgus were more modest and required such sneaking. This is important because at the moment the prevailing opinion is that a compulsary homosexual relationship was part of a boys upbringing in sparta. This is to misunderstand the role of the erastes/eromenos relationship at Spartan and hampers our understanding of the role of women, offering an unrealistic view of the "seen" habits.

As to why this is an issue at all, I'll leave you with the words of Mike Gravel, a man who was a senator in our government and a candidate for the presidential nomination this year when he made this statement:

"If you have any knowledge of history -- ancient history -- in Sparta they encouraged homosexuality because they fight for the people they love, and if it's your partner and you love him, then you're prepared to die for him."

Again, and perhaps indicative of this fellow, there is nothing worth dying for except sex!