08-15-2006, 11:28 PM
Well said, Caius. No one's yet defined the parameters of this discussion even though I inferred that we're talking about Pagan Rome at its height (200 BC - 180 AD ?)
Even if we are restricting the discussion to this perod of Roman history I think Dan was right to point out what he said here :
Very true, I think we're just talking about the elite of the elite when it comes to vices supposedly practiced by the Romans like libertinism and homosexuality. It's logical to assume that the lower classes didn't engage in either one of those - their low economic status would render them oblivious to such practices. Debauchery isn't cheap. Degenerates need money to burn to sustain their "lifestyles."
But which "people" insulted him ? Commoners ? More likely the elite. I know his soldiers accused him of it in their songs but it seems they did it in jest.
Domitian was also a lover of Greek culture but he clamped down on homosexual activity in the name of enforcing the Lex Scantinia. This infuriated the governor of Upper Germany, one Saturnius, who found it sufficient provacation to start his own rebellion. Cassius Dio described Saturnius as an "notorious ans untrustworhty pervert." Did being penetrated make one a pervert ? I don't think Caesar was ever described with such a word.
Theo
Even if we are restricting the discussion to this perod of Roman history I think Dan was right to point out what he said here :
Quote:One other thing to remember is we dont have the records or writings of the average person in the ancient world. Most of our written knowledge comes from the upper class. So the artsy literati types wrote and painted and expressed their sexuality. So most of our 'understanding' of the ancient greek and roman societies come from like 1% of the population.
Very true, I think we're just talking about the elite of the elite when it comes to vices supposedly practiced by the Romans like libertinism and homosexuality. It's logical to assume that the lower classes didn't engage in either one of those - their low economic status would render them oblivious to such practices. Debauchery isn't cheap. Degenerates need money to burn to sustain their "lifestyles."
Quote:Julius Caesar was insulted when people said he had surrendered his body to gain an alliance. He was not insulted when he was accused of penetrating men
But which "people" insulted him ? Commoners ? More likely the elite. I know his soldiers accused him of it in their songs but it seems they did it in jest.
Domitian was also a lover of Greek culture but he clamped down on homosexual activity in the name of enforcing the Lex Scantinia. This infuriated the governor of Upper Germany, one Saturnius, who found it sufficient provacation to start his own rebellion. Cassius Dio described Saturnius as an "notorious ans untrustworhty pervert." Did being penetrated make one a pervert ? I don't think Caesar was ever described with such a word.
Theo
Jaime
