Rome vs Japan

[Narukami]

Quite so, and in fact, that is exactly what the Japanese did.

Well, it took them about 40 years, rather than 5, with assistance by foreign nations competing for position and influence. Also circumstances of that battle favoured the Japanese quite a bit. Still quite a remarkable feat after all. Unfortunately it was probably one of the factors that fired their feeling of racial superiority over all the other Asian nations

They restored the emperor to power (the Meiji Restoration of 1868)

Officially yes, but actually the emperor was still quite restricted in what he could do politically. For the time of the Meiji Era it was an oligarchy made up of (by origin) rather low-level samurai of a few select daimyates (han in Japanese). The emperor one might say was used as a rallying point for building a nation out of a couple of islands with many independently (and selfishly) thinking fiefdoms.

Also lets not forget the last big uprising of the samurai during that period in Kyushu, 1877, led, somewhat unwillingly it seems, by Saigo Takamori (once a member of said oligarchy himself), which was crushed by the new government with its new conscript army. Conscription at that time had become universal, i.e. including Japanese of all classes (something which was hotly debated within the government for quite some time and was one of the factors for Saigo's falling out with the other leading politicians). So you might say that the samurai were finally beaten by their own farmers and (even worse ;-) ) ) merchants.
Of course, putting it like that is something of an exaggeration/sinplification, as always many other factors contributed to the outcome, logistics, weaponry, tactics/decisions at the right or wrong time etc.

As for who would win, samurai or legionary, I'd say flipping a coin would be a valid answer for that question ;-) )

You are correct -- I was over generalizing for the sake of brevity. :oops:

I do think that the Japanese already possessed a deep-seated feeling of superiority over other Asian nations -- their conduct of the war in Korea referenced earlier in this thread is a case in point. The Russo-Japanese war helped to establish them on the world stage, and probably served to confirm their belief that they could beat the Western powers at their own game.

The Meiji Restoration was, once again, a case of the samurai using the emperor to achieve their own ends. They were supported in this endeavor by rich chonin, who saw a golden opportunity to become even richer. I think it is important to remember that by this time many (perhaps most) samurai were not involved in military activities nor even well trained in the martial arts. They were bureaucrats and politicians. When the Tokugawa failed to repel Perry and his Black Fleet the stage was set for the shogun’s downfall and the rise of a new clan or faction. Using the Emperor as a rallying point (as you correctly point out) gave them the legitimacy they needed.

One of the ministers in the new government was from the old and illustrious Ii clan (the famous Ii Red Devils who wore red army, hence the name). Samurai opposed to the modernization programs assassinated him.

Saigo Takamori is a fascinating character. There is an excellent book out, perhaps you have read it, Nobility Of Failure: Tragic Heroes In The History Of Japan by Ivan Morris (ISBN: 0374521204) one chapter of which deals with Saigo and the rebellion. Many of the heroes most revered by the Japanese are those who lost. (Yoshitsune, the great general from the Gempei Wars 1180-85, is highly regarded by the Japanese. Hunted down by his jealous brother, the Shogun Yoritomo, it is rumored that Yoshitsune escaped to the mainland where he changed his name to Genghis Kahn. hock: :wink: )

Once again I am impressed by the depth of knowledge members have not only about Ancient Rome, but also about history in general and military history in particular.

Points to you sir. :wink:

Narukami