03-16-2006, 09:29 PM
Hi Graham,
I take your point, although in Ben Hur I don't get the impression that the Romans are bad, because we later encounter Quintus Arrius - his adoptive Roman father. We also get a favorable view of the Romans - ironically enough- from Pontius Pilate when he gave his final speech to Ben Hur about "where ever there's great power....error is also great". Great scene, IMO.
Yeah, that part made the movie appear dated from my perspective.
Oh, no disagreement here. It's worth owning. I just think it's the most tragic film in Hollywood history because it had everything it needed to become a hit - plenty of extras, top billed actors (though not enough talent in the lead roles), lavish exterior and interior sets, costumes...but in spite of it all, the movie flopped. The blame ultimately lies with the director. But you believe it would've bombed anyway because the public had had enough of epics ? Maybe, but it could've at least done better at the box office, IMO.
Not really, because there isn't anything wrong with the music in and of itself. It's just incongruous to what we see on the screen.
IMO, Loren was better in El Cid. Yes, I know about Plummer's Canadian roots, but he still didn't give a very good performance, I thought. Maybe the script was just too poorly written - but he's a good actor, IMO. Yep, Mason and Quinn were always great
Spartacus, Quo Vadis, Ben Hur, FOTRE...
They're in the openning scene when the Caesarians are burning the Pompeian dead. That's it though. BUT you may recall that one third of the movie was discarded because late in the game someone decided to make it a 4 hour film instead of two 3 hour films ! So much was lost - most of it battle oriented scenes I suspect.
cry:
That's another example of a director or producer wanting to adapt a film to appeal to younger audiences. Big mistake. Stone did it with "Alexander" too. Arrghh...they never learn :evil: .
Quote:how do you suddenly turn the Romans into the good guys
I take your point, although in Ben Hur I don't get the impression that the Romans are bad, because we later encounter Quintus Arrius - his adoptive Roman father. We also get a favorable view of the Romans - ironically enough- from Pontius Pilate when he gave his final speech to Ben Hur about "where ever there's great power....error is also great". Great scene, IMO.
Quote:Romans into the good guys not only to an established audience but to a younger 60's audience who view Imperialism with the establishment. Simple make the empire through Marcus Aurelius promise equality for all "wherever they live, whatever the colour of their skin".
Yeah, that part made the movie appear dated from my perspective.
Quote:It IS probably the most accurate Hollywood version of Ancient Rome ever made to date not appreciated at the time
Oh, no disagreement here. It's worth owning. I just think it's the most tragic film in Hollywood history because it had everything it needed to become a hit - plenty of extras, top billed actors (though not enough talent in the lead roles), lavish exterior and interior sets, costumes...but in spite of it all, the movie flopped. The blame ultimately lies with the director. But you believe it would've bombed anyway because the public had had enough of epics ? Maybe, but it could've at least done better at the box office, IMO.
Quote:Another irony Jaime is that Tiomkin's score was actually nominated for an Oscar!
Not really, because there isn't anything wrong with the music in and of itself. It's just incongruous to what we see on the screen.
Quote:Loren is probably the main non British actor unless you count Plummer, actually Canadian as non-British so there were not many non-British actors in major roles.
IMO, Loren was better in El Cid. Yes, I know about Plummer's Canadian roots, but he still didn't give a very good performance, I thought. Maybe the script was just too poorly written - but he's a good actor, IMO. Yep, Mason and Quinn were always great
Spartacus, Quo Vadis, Ben Hur, FOTRE...Quote:I am not sure Spanish troops were used in Cleopatra but I will check.
They're in the openning scene when the Caesarians are burning the Pompeian dead. That's it though. BUT you may recall that one third of the movie was discarded because late in the game someone decided to make it a 4 hour film instead of two 3 hour films ! So much was lost - most of it battle oriented scenes I suspect.
cry: That's another example of a director or producer wanting to adapt a film to appeal to younger audiences. Big mistake. Stone did it with "Alexander" too. Arrghh...they never learn :evil: .
Jaime
